Prime Henry Armstrong vs Roberto Duran at Ltweight

Shorter, smaller fighter who walked straight into guys that were bigger than Duran and defended the title at a higher weight class than he did despite being physically smaller...

 

I agree that Armstrong is the greater fighter, I have him at #4 and Duran at #7 on my P4P lists. I just think you're doing Duran an injustice here in this matchup. There is no scenario I can think of where this fight isn't insanely close

 

I don't disagree on that. Maybe I was a little ott. Me saying 'murder' wasn't necessarily saying that it was going to be easy. I think the fight would definitely been competitive early on but Armstrong would have overwhelmed him with the pressure and put a beating on him late as he tended to get better as the fight went on. He had this great ability to break guys down.

Out of curiosity, who do you have top 10 p4p?

 

1. Greb
2. Langford
3. Robinson
4. Armstrong
5. Ali
6. Charles
7. Duran
8. Mayweather
9. Pacquiao
10. Benny Leonard

My top 7 are pretty much my set GOAT list, 8-15 is more or less interchangeable. What's yours?

 

Exactly where I rank them both P4P too Mel

 

Nice list. Mayweather and Pacquiao a little high and I have Fitzsimmons at #6, but no major complaints.

 

Good post, much of which I agree with.

Armstrong simultaneously holding world titles at FW, LW and WW, and then going on to make 19 successful defences at the heaviest of these, a few at the beginning whilst weighing under the LW limit, is a good as pick as any for the most remarkable achievement in boxing history, imo.

I also rank Ross over SRL (narrowly), P4P, but not at WW. Ross was a natural LW, or LWW at most. Armstrong was more dominant over Ross than Duran over SRL, though.

Incidentally, Armstrong's run at this time, and his performance over my #15 P4P all time fighter Ross, inparticular, make me think Lou Ambers is underrated for his 2 performances vs Armstrong.

 

It seems today Armstrong is half forgotten and underrated by many when by all accounts of his age he was an absolute exceptional force of nature ...I think he , Duran and Chavez all classed about the same or close to it at 135 or so but I'd give an edge to Duran , maybe ..

 

1. Armstrong
2. Robinson
3. Louis
4. Greb
5. Langford
6. J. Johnson
7. Fitszimmons
8. Gans
9. B. Leonard
10. J. Wilde

This is pretty set in stone for me. I've got Pep and Walker and Ketchel just shy of the top 10. A lot of people give me stick for leaving out Ali. I've got Duran somewhere in the teens (he's top 10 of my personal favourites).

 

Lou Ambers is probably the most underrated/forgotten Great fighter in history. He has an extraordinary record, he was the only guy to beat Armstrong when he went on that tear, he's got wins over prime Armstrong and Canzoneri yet even boxing historians (like the so-called expert Bert Sugar) forget about him. I've got him as the #7 LW of all time and I think he would definitely make the cut of any (sensible) top 100 list.

I've got Barney Ross ranked in the early 20's. He held the welterweight and light-welterweight titles simultaneously and has one of the great resumes in boxing history. I might have to reconsider my ranking! I've got him and Ray Leonard tied at no. 6 greatest Welterweight.

 

My 10 at LW:

Leonard
Gans
Duran
McFarland
Whitaker
Ortiz
Williams
Ambers
Welsh
Canzeroni

I only factor fights contested in any given weight into my rankings, so whilst Ross makes my top 20 at LW and WW, he doesn't make my 10 at either. SRL is my #2 at WW. P4P I have Ross #15 and SRL#17.

 

Thanks, always found it hard to rank Fitz

 

Fair enough. The context i think of when rating as high as #6 p4p all time, is:

It took 100 years of Queensbury rules gloved boxing for the LHW champion to win the HW title. In terms of lineal, its still only been done once.

Fitz was a MW champ who won the HW title. Then, aged 41, in an era when that's roughly equivalent to being aged 50 today, he beat the brilliant Jack O'brien to win the LHW title.

 

Hi Buddy.
The post after yours he grant was wondering whether Armstrong was half forgotten, and also underrated, not feeling or seeing evidence of that myself, but as to your post, Ambers has most certainly been overlooked, and underrated in my opinion, he was a tenacious and gritty box/fighter, not unlike Zivic, he was adept at close quarter fighting, had a very good chin indeed, only the big hitting Jenkins stopped him, and posted wins over, Zivic, Davey Day, Bummy Davis, Canzoneri x2 and of course Armstrong himself, I will take punt and say you have him between 10 and 15 on your LW list of all time ?
stay safe amigo.

 

LW
1.Joe Gans
2.Benny Leonard
3.Henry Armstrong
4.Roberto Duran
5.Tony Canzoneri
6.Battling Nelson
7.Lou Ambers/Barney Ross
9. Jimmy McLarnin
10.Ike Williams
11.Pernell Whittaker/Carlos Ortiz
13.Lew Tendler
14.George 'Kid' Lavigne
15. Ad Wolgast

Missed the Cut: Wiillie Ritchie/Owen Moran/McFarland/Freddie Welsh/Beau Jack

WW
1.SRR
2. Armstrong
3. Barbados Joe Walcott
4.Mickey Walker
5. Tommy Ryan
6. SRL/Ross
8. Jack Britton
9. Ted 'Kid' Lewis
10. Jimmy McLarnin
11. Kid Gavilan
12. Basilio/Napoles/Griffith
15. Tommy Hearns
16. Wilfred Benitez