Prime: Holmes - Norton

Larry had a torn muscle in his left arm, a fact that was public knowledge even before his fight with Norton. Still, he dominated Ken over the first ten rounds, and should have had the match sewn up on the cards by then. So, Norton was aging, while Holmes was injured.

Healthy peak for healthy peak, I think Larry outboxes Ken to win a close but clear decision, and likewise wins a rematch to squash the impetus for a rubber match. He was a better boxer with superior mobility to Norton.

Ken worked really hard in training for Holmes. "I need a big win," he said, fully realizing the onus was on him to prove himself a worthy champion after being awarded the WBC Title in a smoke filled room. He was coming off the only 15 round win of his career, that split decision over Young. 1977 was otherwise impressive with his knockouts of Bobick and Zanon. Norton was as ready as he possibly could have been, yet still got schooled by a hampered Holmes through the first several rounds. I don't see a peak Norton (whenever that was) doing much better against the Holmes of Cooney and Cobb in 1982.

 

Agreed,

I will also ad, ( as you've touched upon already ) that while Ken was around 35 years of age for the Holmes fight, he was coming off the best streak of his career, and was in peak physical condition... His experience after facing Ali 3 times and beating elite contenders in Young and Quarry was far beyond what it had been, when he met Muhammad Ali for the first time. Also, Holmes in my opinion, did not really reach his peak until probably 1980-81.. A prime Norton would have always troubled Holmes, but at the end of the day, Larry was a better fighter with the right tools to beat him...

 

:good

 

i think norton was at his most effective peak when he did fight holmes. he was great against ali and quarry, i will give him that.

 

Prime for prime,I can see a series of bouts between these two. All of them close,with probably Holmes winning two of them.

 

Both men, as sharp as they can be? I'd look at it in a 51-49 perspective. Holmes has that little bit extra than that of Norton. That 2% is the gamechanger. In terms of intangibles, Larry was a mean guy in the ring. That chip on his shoulder got him a lot of things, and Norton's scalp is one of them.

 

Well, If we judge the fact that Larry was entering his prime and Norton was past it, we would have to say a prime vs Prime fight would be closer. Style wise Norton folded vs punchers and although Larry could pin point a solid punch like Ali, we can not say he was near a puncher, In fact I don't think Holmes or Ali could pinpoint as hard as Walcott.

I think where Norton's strength comes in vs the Ali/Holmes type is he was unorthodox and could break up a rhythm. Ali and Holmes danced to James Brown but Norton was more of a Jimmy Hendrix. We all know Norton could not back up successfully but he did not need to vs Ali and Holmes. Rhythm breakers like the Klitschko's, Marciano,Calzage,Hopkins,Norton,Charles,are not without rhythm, they just dance to a different beat and this can upset the R+B guys. Norton would always hang with Ali and Norton and make it tight...Styles

 

I think it would always be tight as a fishes arse between these two. I think early model Ali would actually beat Norton handily but by the time they fought Ali had to spend too much time flatfooted, for starters. Holmes never moved as much as early Ali and would to work hard vs Kenny. Norton was a real stylistic drama for boxers. I think he'd trouble Walcott and co too.

 

Not sure, he may trouble Walcott for a bit but JJW, although not a great finisher was one of the best and hardest punching one punch pinpoint punchers I have seen in the Heavyweight division. He would be troubled by Kenny's awkward rhythm for a bit but eventually connect and put Ken on his ass. I only seen Kenny survive a 2 KD round vs Scott Ledoux at the end of his career but Ledoux was no puncher and Kenny was on his way to being KO'd, Kenny was past it but so was trial horse Ledoux.

I think JJW may possess the necessary power required to ring Kenny's bell enough to stop him or score a few KD's in a close fight. I think pinpoint accuracy combined with power may be the difference with JJW

 

It would be a fascinating fight Bummy, no doubt about that. If Joe's power didn't ring his bell he'd be in a spot of trouble.

 

Ken's age has always been subject to debate. In biographical articles his birthday is listed anywhere between 1943-45. I'm not sure which date is correct.

 

Good post. I like the James Brown and Jimi Hendrix comparissons :good

 

Perhaps too much is made of Norton's age at the time, and not enough about the fact he was a very late bloomer who was already 30 by the second Ali fight. His stated plan for reigning as WBC Champion before the Holmes match was "to defend the title every month and a half" (from a televised interview given immediately after he was awarded the belt). Having a reputation for entering his training camps already in fine condition, he had obviously prepared his mind and body for ambitions far exceeding his first title defense. He certainly wasn't overlooking Holmes though, as Larry was outspoken enough in his confidence to visibly agitate Ken into a state of heightened alert. He clearly wanted to shut Holmes up. I was rooting for Ken. (After we saw Ali lose to Spinks, I asked my father what he thought of Leon. He replied, "I can't see him beating Norton." That seemed to be the first thought of most viewers, and a magazine cover trumpeted, "Is there anybody who CANNOT beat Leon Spinks?")

Ken's peak performance? Maybe against Quarry. Jerry was two years younger at 29, and he'd gone ten rounds in winning a trimatch with old buddy Scrap Iron less than a month earlier, but he'd been punching and getting punched for over a quarter century by then, and was paying dearly for that early start. Coming up on the one year anniversary of the Foreman debacle in Caracas, Norton was anxious to redeem himself in the public mind, and he'd always wanted Quarry. Ken really looked sharp and relaxed here, with pinpoint accuracy on his punches. He provided the most impressive display of foot speed and mobility he ever exhibited. Ken countered and defended well off the ropes against a torrid round three assault by a freshly cut and newly desperate Jerry. Norton's jab was long and jarring in this one.

Larry has stated himself that he felt best for Cooney, but my personal preference is for his following 15 round shutout of Cobb in late November 1982. With Cooney behind him, he seemed to feel fully confident in his status, prestige and public acceptance (this being around the time he landed that nationally televised campaign endorsement for KFC, a rare mainstream cultural achievement for a boxing star even then), having thoroughly experienced and integrated the knowledge and support provided by Futch and Arcel. (Through the remainder of his reign, the chip was off his shoulder, and wouldn't really return until after Mike Spinks I.) Prior to meeting Futch, he'd been lifting his left leg before throwing his right hand, thus tipping off the punch. Eddie corrected that flaw, and perhaps tweaked Larry in other ways leading to further improvement and development.

Norton was preparing for the suddenly impressive Holmes of Shavers I, not a challenger with an impaired left arm. Still, Larry got the best of him through the opening stages of their classic, where Ken's advancing age would be less of a factor, if a factor at all. Norton wasn't a particularly fast starter, but he'd reversed that reputation a bit with the Bobick blowout. He was always most dominant in the middle rounds though, and these were the very rounds Holmes virtually swept from him.

 

they had a great fight. Norton gave ali great fights. asking if norton could ever do beter against holmes is like asking could norton have been the champion holmes ever was? the answer has to be NO.

holmes punched with way more authority with his right hand in fights either side of this fight. holmes must have had something wrong with it. a rematch would have ended in a stopage loss for kenny who was never the same after holmes. thats not to say holmes would have won by stoppage first time around since norton realy wanted to win that fight i just think norton would have had more shakey monments first time around had holmes's right been good.