Who do you think takes this one? A guy on another board thinks Holmes beats Ali 9 times out of 10. And could post exile Ali compete with a prime Holmes?
9 out of 10? No way. A prime 66-67' Ali vs a prime 79-80' Holmes could go either way. Ali had trouble with good jabbers at all stages of his career. See the Doug Jones, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young fights. Holmes would be the best jabber Ali ever fought. Holmes punch out put was also higher than Ali's. Ali would be the quickest mover Holmes ever fought. Holmes said Ali was the best he ever saw at moving backwards and punching. I do think Holmes was less prone to take breaks in the rounds, a bit more versatile as an in or out fighter, and more technically sound on defense. Alis pre fight antics would not side track an all business Holmes. The rope a dope, and show boating would not work vs a quick handed skilled fighter like Holmes. The scoring here could come down what you prefer. Style or substance? Alis popularity might win over the crowd and judges even if Holmes really wins the fight. I think Holmes would throw and land more punches. Neither man is likely to go down.
This is an intriguing one. I do think it is a bit simplistic to say Ali had trouble with jabbers. He went great guns against Liston who had an awesome jab. Nevertheless, the combination of speed, range and frequency of Holmes jab is hard to go past, and it is certainly true that noone Ali faced ever had a jab like that. But equally it would be fair to say that Holmes fought noone even remotely like prime Ali, whatever your criteria of interest (except punching power, where Ali falls short of characters like Shavers). Holmes never faced anyone as fast as Ali, noone who could jab like Ali, and noone with Ali's ability to find tricks and solutions mid-fight when things are going wrong. I have to go with '67 Ali. I have yet to identify anyone who I would feel confident picking against prime Ali - although Holmes would be one of his toughest conquests... On the other hand I pick prime Holmes to sneak a decision over most versions of post-exile Ali. I feel Holmes is too much of a sharp shooter for an opponent whose (sublime) physical gifts have eroded, even if only slightly.
Ali had the better movement,and hand speed,both had fine jabs ,Holmes .s had more oomph to it and was thrown "longer".Both boxers "money punch was the right ,though neither of them were real bangers,Holmes was vulnerable to the right,over his low left,Ali to the left hook ,so in theory Ali has a slight stylistic advantage,but in practice both had top chins,with remarkable powers of recuperation.Neither was much of a left hooker ,though Ali stopped Bonavena with hooks,Holmes had a great right uppercut,in Johnsons class,and was probably the better puncher.I see Ali winning 7 out of 10,but they would be close decision fights.
I don't. Liston's jab was slow, and keep in mind Liston quit injury or if you prefer threw the fight. The faster handed jabbers like Doug Jones ( 1963, one year before Liston ), Kenny Norton ( 1973, 1973, 1976 ), Ron Lyle ( 1975 ), and Jimmy Young ( 1976 ) gave Ali major league problems, and out jabbed him. When two boxer types meet in the ring, the jab is the most decisive punch. Whoever makes better use of it wins, unless a knockout happens, which in this fantasy fight is unlikely. IMO, Holmes jab was faster than the above fighters, more accurate, thrown more often, and harder than all of the above fighters. Holmes jab could be used to score points, set up another punch, or as a defensive keep off me type of jab. It was a weapon. Holmes really snapped the jab, and could rock the other guy's head back when it landed.
Maybe Ali had better hand speed, but it is close. Holmes was better body puncher, and better in-fighter. When the going got rough on the inside, Ali liked to clinch. Holmes had that uppercut, and was a better at bending the rules on the inside. In the final rounds, I do think Holmes had better stamina by a small, but noticeable margin. Ali was mostly an out fighter who head hunted. I think we all agree this is a decision type of fight. If so, the key in this fight is punch out put, who lands the jab more, and who defends best against the jab. I think Holmes has the advantage on the " styles " that will make this fight.
I dont know if the jab would be the complete key to the fight. I can see holmes landing his jab more but ali maybe nailing him with many lead rights as he throws it. To me this is a 50/50 fight but put a gun to my head and ill go with ali just because I feel he was better at adapting than Holmes.
I am not sure when prime Ali was.A lot of people will say it was 66- 67,he was very active then,fighting a lot,but looking good against Zora Folley and Cleve Williams at that time,is hardly an endorsement.He was quick, and in superb condition,but he showed something in the first Frazier fight,that we had not seen before.He was bigger,slower for sure,but showed tremendous heart and ring generalship,despite being dead tired and for the first time,fighting without that fabulous footwork. That also was really the first time I had heard,[he can take a punch}.A hard fighter to figure.Fights that he was suppose to lose,he seemed to win easily,like Liston and Foreman.Then he struggled in fights that he shouldn't have,Doug Jones,Norton,Young etc.I don't know who would win the first Holmes-Ali fight,I only know Ali would win the rematch.
How do you call this one? Maybe a slight edge to Holmes because he hit harder, especially with the jab. His jab could force Ali backward while Ali could'nt force Holmes back with his own. Holmes also body punched while Ali did'nt. Ali for his turn had a slight edge in handspeed and chin and was faster on his feet. Pretty even fight if you ask me. A common rap against all the great champs over the years is that they never faced an opponent quite like themselves. This fight would bring this out. I think we're looking at a chess match on fast forward. Can't put money on this one but if you put a gun to my head for one fight between the two then I'll pick Holmes by a slight decision.