Gotta go with a prime Holyfield here. Lewis isn't keeping a prime Holy behind his jab. A clearly deteriorated version of Holyfield who could only fight in short spurts battled tooth and nail with Lewis in their second fight, arguably deserving a draw.
Pretty irrational. Adding the scores of two individual fights. The second fight is close...7-5 is one close swing round from a draw.
I think the fight would play out much like it did in 99/00. Lewis' size and reach is always going to pose a big problem for Holyfield, who was always hot and cold as a heavy. Against the Lewis-sized Bowe, Holy was beaten twice and managed a narrow majority decision in the other.
Why is it irrational? I think it's irrational not to. They were back to back fights in which the 2nd fight never even should have taken place, so who's being irrational in this discussion? Fact is if the first fight was properly scored it would have been between 11-1 and 9-3 and we'd never even be discussing a second fight, never mind using it as justification as an outcome in their primes. To me, those who only focus on one of the two fights to justify a particular outcome are the ones being irrational.
That's funny. I have a newspaper quoting the following: "LAS VEGAS Now, they are even. Eight months ago, Evander Holyfield got the benefit of a disgraceful and possibly criminal decision when two alleged fight judges named Jean Williams and Larry OConnell gifted him with a draw in a fight he clearly lost to Lennox Lewis. ADVERTISING Last night, Lewis got the birthday present, courtesy of three judges who should be subjected to even more scrutiny than those two hapless souls faced after the Agony at the Garden. Last time, the job was pulled off by a crew of two. This time it was a Gang of Three, and they made off with boxings biggest prize of all, the undisputed heavyweight championship. Lennox Lewis gets to wear that honor today, the first Englishman to hold it since Bob Fitzsimmons lost it in 1899, and no doubt he will wear it proudly. After all, this is a man who took the WBC belt out of a garbage can, won another belt over a man who was in the middle of a crying jag, and only this week was happy to strap the belt of something called the IBO around his waist, again without winning a fight. But with the exception of the way he fought the ninth round, Lennox Lewis had little to be proud of last night. In a fight that had two great rounds, two good ones and nearly a half-hour of posing, pawing and clinching, the names you will remember today are Bill Graham, Jerry Roth and Chuck Giampa. They are the ones who decided that last night would be Lennox Lewis night, even after Holyfield had cut him, shook him up in the third, nearly stopped him in the seventh and pushed him all over the ring in the 12th. And despite the presence of more than 10,000 Brits in the 19,000-seat Thomas & Mack Center, the chant that reverberated through the hall in the closing minute of the bout was for Holyfield. Maybe this is boxings way of telling Holyfield it is time to quit, or maybe the message is coming from an even higher authority. But if Holyfield cant win a decision after the way he fought last night, perhaps he just cant win anymore. It wasnt his greatest performance, as he had predicted it might turn out to be this week, but it was enough to intimidate Lewis after three rounds, leave him gasping for breath after seven, and reduced him to resorting to a pitiful, after-the-bell flurry as the fight ended. Holyfield did everything he failed to do in the first fight, when he was spared a loss despite doing nothing. Last night, he did it all for eight rounds, tired for three of the last four, and closed te show with a decisive round 12. His reward this time was a kick down the ring steps, a shove out the door. I hit him with some good shots and I thought it would catch up with him, Holyfield said. I did all that I can. It should have been enough. Is this the way boxing plays even-up, by making up for an atrocious decision with one that was even worse? The big thing in life is that you give it your all, Holyfield said. When it falls into the judges hands, you have to live with their decision. Holyfield left the ring with a sad little smile on his unmarked face as a good chunk of the crowd rushed to meet him at the bottom of the ring steps. Lewis, puffy-faced and cut over the right eyebrow, was serenaded by the British fans as he left, but this time, it sounded forced and almost embarrassed. Right now, Im gonna chill out and relish the moment, he said. I went through some trials and tribulations with him in there. And in truth, Lewis showed one quality he had rarely shown in his previous 36 fights, the ability to stand up to a pretty good beating and fire back. But the 10th round could have been subtitiled, Lennox Lewis, This Is Your Life. After leaving Holyfield so shook up he literally stumbled back to his corner to end the ninth, Lewis fought the 10th as if he had suddenly been thrown into a cage with a lion. He posed, he pawed, he tried to hold Holyfield off with an outstretched left arm. He did everything but press his advantage at the only point in the fight where he had a real chance to win it decisively. It was his entire career boiled down to a three-minute segment, and even the highly-partisan crowd jeered when he went back to his corner at the bell. Once again, Lewis could not force himself to cross the fear threshold. Presented with the perfect opportunity to knock out Holyfield out, he could not overcome his own fear of being knocked out. It was perhaps the most shameful round ever fought by a man daring to call himself the heavyweight champion of the world. By contrast, Holyfield, giving away 25 pounds and three inches in height, continually risked his safety to bore inside Lewis long arms. He outworked Lewis in nine of the 12 rounds, shook him with right hands in the third and seventh, and walked through Lewis best shots. And even if somehow, the Three Blind Mice had it close entering the 12th round, there is no way they could have given the last round to Lewis. Holyfield won the round, and the fight, going away. The Post had Holyfield a 116-112 winner. Roths card was 115-113, Giampa 116-112 and Graham, who is 83 years old, somehow marked his card 117-111, all for Lewis. In the first creditable move it has made in years, the IBF announced after the bout it would declare the title vacant, but for the wrong reason: Lewis, feeling he had been robbed the first time, refused to pay its sanction fee. This time, it should be Holyfield who holds onto his money."
Where to start. How about we start with the acknowledged robbery in the first fight, cause without that robbery, we're not even talking about a second fight. Then let's compare who's saying what. You have some Las Vegas newspaper, saying blah, blah, blah, and I've got Bernstein, Kenny, and Lederman, talking about Lewis getting robbed. But you know what, why not ignore who said what and watch the fights for yourself. I've watched the 2nd fight over and over again, and I've debated probably 8-9 posters over the years, and none of them have ever put forth a round by round justification as to Holyfield winning the second fight, but you want to try, then be my guest.
Lewis should probably be favored. But my emotional side wants to beleive that the heart and will of Evander prevails.. So I voted for him by decision. But I really have no solid convictions about it.
The fact is there was a second fight, and Holyfield dramatically improved upon his performance. Making good on his claim he was over confident in the early knock out prediction, and woukd do better if he boxed more. You can't combine two fights as if they were one, because they we're.....two different fights. You don't like the fact the second meeting was close and creates doubt if Lewis supremacy, so you want the first to cancel it out. Doesnt work that way. Funny, I don't think you want Rahman vs Lewis 1 to be discussed in such a way.
Great find. And the opinion I recall many having at the time. Foreman on HBO even mentioned before the verdict, Lewis may get favored because he was robbed in the first fight.
I never said they were one fight. I said if you combine the outcomes of the TWO fights the outcome isn't particularly close. Actually quite the opposite is happening, you can't seem to acknowledge that two fights actually occurred between the two of them and the first fight wasn't particularly close. Two fights took place, Lewis was blatantly robbed in the first. Deal with it.
He deserved the nod the in first, maybe not in the second. And no, had Lewis been given the nod there still likely woukd have been a rematch. Not sure why you are so convinced of that. Both men were unhappy with their performances and wanted to prove they could do better, Holyfield and King likely had clauses, and there wasn't other big dollar options.
Ya that's right because in your little word Lewis has a glass jaw, only one Holyfield fight happened and Holyfield was robbed. Oh and Vitali won the their fight because Lewis either headbutted him, laced him with his gloves, used his razor sharp hair to exasperate the cut and ducked the rematch. Have I missed anything gentlemen? That's right I did. Mercer was robbed. Golota was drugged, and Ruddock was shot. Oh I even heard someone say Lewis ducked Bowe. Probably one of you two.
I don't particular mind that there was a rematch, but if the scores were 9-3 or something along those lines, and given the fight wasn't hugely exciting, I doubt a rematch would have taken place, but who knows for sure.