Prime Hvy Holyfield vs Havanna Willard, 45 rounds

Holyfield could stop anybody, but he was generally taking rounds to do it.

How many legitimately world class opponents did he stop in the first six rounds for example?

Qawi and Douglas are the only two that spring to mind.

How many on the first four rounds then?

Only a couple of people made it out of the sixth round against Dempsey while he was fighting anywhere near world level.

I would say that the one thing that should never be questioned about Dempsey, are his credentials as a finisher.

 

And which of those were legitimately world class ?

I'm not sure scoring EARLY KOs is the measure of a puncher anyway. For example, Mike Weaver's KO15 of John Tate and Marciano's KO13 of Walcott were solid enough evidence of power-punching for me.

 

A good question.

Without rankings, it is obviously tricky to say who the top five guys were.

To be on safe ground, I would say the following met the grade in at least one encounter with Dempsey:

Bill Brennan

Billy Miske

Fred Fulton

Bat Levinsky

Jess Willard

Georges Carpintier

Tommy Gibbons

Luis Firpo

Gene Tunney

Jack Sharkey

There are other guys that you might make a case for.

 

jeffries, and to a much lesser extent baer, deserve the understanding that their best performances were not filmed.

willards best fight was filmed, but needs to be viewed in context of the fight, i.e 45 rounds where willards tacics were effiective and his chin and stamina were decisive(19 rds early).

I think it is better than 50/50 that willard gets stopped before 15, but after then the chance for willard has to go up with each round.

 

I just feel that as long as somebody let's Holyfield know about 3 months before the fights that it's going to be scheduled for 45 rounds (or less) he'll be fine.

People are banking on Holyfield running out of gas after the 15th round, why? Holyfield fought Hall of Famer Dwight Qawi in just his 12th pro fight (Holyfield won the decision and the WBA CW belt). Holyfield got even better after this fight. He stopped Qawi in the 4th round of their rematch.

Holyfield had plenty of power, he just fought during a time when some of the best HW title contenders were not only big, durable, and powerful... but they were also talented.

Foreman (only stopped by Ali), Holmes (only stopped by Tyson), Bowe (1 of only 3 Lineal HW Champs who were never stopped), Mercer (Holyfield was the 1st to drop him but in his prime he was almost impossible to stop), Lewis (he was stopped twice but he had size, power, and talent vs. the past prime Holyfield). Holyfield dropped Bowe and Mercer. He stopped Qawi, DeLeon, Ocasio, Thomas, Dokes, Douglas, Tyson, and others.

If you are for Willard the only thing you can hope for is Holyfield running out of gas... I wouldn't like those odds.

 

Holyfield is not going to run out of gas after 15.

Willard is going to run out of face after 6.

 

I knew I could count on you buddy

 

Yes, and he will punch himself in the face, forcing the stoppage, before the 20th round anyway!

 

OK, I'll acknowledge that we don't know how well Holyfield would do after 15 rounds.

We also don't know how well Willard would do against somebody like Holyfield. Holyfield looks like King Kong compared to most of the fighters Willard faced. 6'2 1/2" with a 77 1/2" reach and 210-215 ripped Lbs. A great chin, stamina, quick hands, quick feet, good footwork, great strength, good power, accurate puncher, great combinations, great inside fighter, a great overall fighter.

As for Dempsey's power? Sure, he could swat but he was just over 6' and just under 190 Lbs. He did have a 77" reach. Dempsey started fast with a kill or be killed attitude and he prevailed over most of the men he faced. He struggled with Sharkey and Tunney x2 (he was even dropped by Tunney) late in his career, both of these men were similar in size to Dempsey. Before he declined he struggled with Willie Meehan, going 1-1-2 vs. Meehan. He went 1-1 (1) vs. Fireman Jim Flynn, both fights ended in the 1st round. He was knocked out of the ring by Firpo and people helped him back in the ring, he went on to stop Firpo. People considered Firpo a huge man but he was the same height as Holyfield and their weight was similar.

No disrespect to Dempsey or Willard but neither could have beat Holyfield.






He knocked the sh

 

Holyfield by KO

 

Holyfield's combination of stamina, work rate and crisp punching should get the job done, but this would not be easy.

Willard was not as easy to hit as people believe. Dempsey initially floored him with the last of a four punch combination; he had to be creative to get results. The following massacre tells a different story but few, if any, could deck Jess so early. All eye witnesses agree it was a sledgehammer of shot. Holyfield simply can't replicate that so there's more work to do.

Jess had an awkward but effective way of smothering your efforts. He also possessed power that demanded respect. The Jess who fought Johnson, though limited, displayed a good understanding of range and straight punching. The occasional jab and right would get Evander's attention as he bounced around, composing new assaults.

The very best Evander should land often enough, cause enough damage that Willard does not see the fifteenth. The lukewarm warrior of Moorer I is in for a horrible time.

 

45 rounds is too much. If it was 25 rounds or less, I'd pick Holyfield.

 

We can't even predict the outcome of fights between two fighters from the same era.

If you are certain of the outcome of a fight between two fighters separated by eighty years, then you are not being nearly critical enough in evaluating your opinions.

 

Can you imagine Holyfield standing over a fallen opponent and leaping on them as they rose? Scary thought