prime James Toney vs prime Rocky Marciano (12 rounds)

Toney would catch Marciano a few times and I can see him surviving but he ain´t beating him.

 

Exactly ... James does not hit hard enough or punch enough ... Rocky could take Toney's best and after a few frustrating opening rounds Rocky would outwork him and out muscle him .. it would be closer than his other title bouts as in many ways Toney would Jimmy Young him, make him miss a ton , hit him a lot, ect ... in the end Rocky was too strong, too well conditioned and too good to lose to him ..

 

Yeah, depends a bit what Marciano we're talking about. The 1950-53 one-punch KO artist threw about 40 to 50 punches a round, but every one of them was designed to put you to sleep. In his later days, he nearly doubled that amount, but without the extreme power on it.

 

Toney is very good in close and would easily read Marciano and land flush often on the counter. But Marciano can take whaterver Toney dishes out and punish Toney for his moments of inactivity. Rocky was even more relentless than Jirov and hit a lot harder.

I can't see Marciano stopping Toney as he has shown an iron chin throughout his career against bigger men than Rocky. Toney is often a static target so Marciano won't have to chase Toney and while Toney is a defensive genius he can't avoid every punch. Toney does well early and lands often, picking Rocky off as he comes in but it's not enough to deter Marciano who walks through everything and through sheer aggression and workrate earns a close decision.

 

But now your overrating Toney. Toney was not in the class of Archie Moore as a fighter, and Moore's very best heavyweight version got dismantled in 9 rounds. Toney may have a better chin, but that's all he has on Moore. I don't see how skillwise, toney can fight any better of a fight than Archie Moore did. Look at how much toney struggled with a swarming Jirov, who isn't half the fighter Marciano is. Jirov is nowhere near in marciano's league as a puncher, either.

Toney is made for Marciano.

 

General,

You say this

then you say this

So despite you admitting you havn't watched enough moore fights, you decided to make the generalization that Archie was in worse shape physically in 55 than Toney was against Jirov? Talk about irrational thinking



My opinion is Archie Moore was in better shape in 1955 than Toney was against Jirov. Archie looked a bit leaner and more muscular. He also had been calling out marciano for years, and wanted this fight very badly. He had no choice but to show up in amazing shape. Toney was in good shape vs Jirov, but he wasn't as hungry for the Jirov fight as moore was for wanting Marciano.

Also if we compare the Toney of Jirov fight and Moore of Marciano fight.....Archie was the better fighter- Leading into the Marciano fight, Archie had recently beaten Nino Valdes, Harold Johnson, Joey Maxim, Bob Baker, Bobo Olsen. All top contenders/hall of famers. James Toney, was coming off an embarrasing loss vs Drake Thazdi, and unimpressive win over Jason Robinson. Their resumes at this point in there careers is not even close...Archie by a landslide

 

Hold it there Chris. You are getting way to advanced for certain posters in this thread. You might have to back up. HEGrant is lost right now. He needs to go upstairs and ask his mother for help.

 

So James Toney can do more than what Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, and Jersey Joe Walcott could do?

 

None of them punched as hard as Marciano though.

 

This is just an oppinion. Something I learned in this thread.

 

It's just an opinion. But it's an opinion that I believe would be backed up by many. How many experts would compare Vassily Jirov to Rocky Marciano? One is an ATG legend, the other just another good fighter.

 

No way Toney is able to something like Jimmy Young. Just no way. Toney is great at dodging two punches and taking the third. That's why almost all of his fights were so close: he always took plenty of punches in, and had to lower his workrate because the defensive moves require a lot of energy.

Plus, he was not fast on his feet at the higher weights. Toney would NEVER be able to do what Young did to Foreman or Ali...

 

I can't help but think how much better Toney would have been better off fighting Peter, Rahman, Ruiz, at 217lb rather than 235lb. Like you said, his defensive skill required a lot of energy. Energy that would be taxed at a faster rate if he had more fat on him at a obese 235lb. Toney's style is designed to be fast and slick, which he could be at around 200lb.

 

I used to replay this over and over back in the day. Something about that wind up and delivery with this specific punch / KO.

8:25 start....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5chxdyedNw[/ame]