prime James Toney vs prime Rocky Marciano (12 rounds)

How many top 10 heavies did James Toney beat? Two in Ruiz(with the help of roids) and old Holyfeld.

Moore beat 6 top ranked challengers to the heavyweight crown... All younger, bigger, men. He also simultaneously ruled a loaded light heavyweight division for nearly a decade.

Moore batters future number one Heavyweight Nino Valdez, giving up 35 lbs and a considerable reach advantage.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi66CQ_ivDg[/ame]

To compare Toney at 170+ to Moore is like comparing Jermain Taylor to Sugar Ray Robinson.

 

I meant in terms of skill set, not physical conditioning. You claim that Moore was a much better fighter than Toney skill wise and I admit I haven't seen enough of Moore's fight to make a accurate comparison yet.

Nothing irrational about it, like I said before, I meant in terms of making a comparison of their skill set. What could Moore do that Toney couldn't do?

How can Moore who had been in more than 197 fights, aged anywhere from 38-42, be in much better shape than the Toney who fought Jirov?

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You cannot know this, that fight was Toney's chance to resuscitate his career

Your reaching with this, how does a loss 6 years before his fight with Jirov help your argument in any way?

Now you are saying his win over Robinson was unimpressive? This has nothing to do with anything, if Moore (with a lot of wear and tear) can last 9 rounds than Toney can last 12 rounds. Also Toney would be the naturally bigger man compared with Moore, who made his pro debut as a mw (during the same day weigh ins), while Toney was a natural lhw drying himself out to fight at mw

 

Not really, its a well known fact that Toney was very inconsistent hence the train wreck of his career (97-2002). But we are assuming he comes in motivated not drained and a motivated Toney could give anyone (not named Jones) a hard time. He has never been koed, so I see no reason why people here think that Marciano kos him

 

Good post, I can agree with this

 

Marciano is a completely different kind of animal....The Rock by KO over Toney...

 

I agree.

Marciano TKO12.

 

Marciano late KO.

 

The Jones fight was below 170. Above that, Toney has lost to Griffin, Peter, and drew with Rahman. His is only really noteworthy wins in the upper weight classes being against Jirov, Ruiz, and old Holyfield. He can't match volume against Moore but he isn't matching him in high points either.

Prior to Marciano, Moore had not been KOed in over 60+ known fights, many against the elite of two divisions, sometimes giving up 10-30 lbs against top 5 Heavyweight power punchers in Valdez, Baker, and Henry.
Thats almost as many pro fights as Toney had in his entire career and against stronger competition overall.

 

Funny

 

I meant in terms of style, Toney would always struggle with speed demons like Jones and Nunn at any weight class

As I said before Toney is very inconsistent, I had him losing the first Griffin fight, but winning the second fight. Toney was back to his under performing self again after the Holyfield fight. Look at the state of him in those fights you mentioned, I cant see how talking about those fights bares any relevance to the fight in question.

And the following year he was koed by Patterson in 5 rounds

This helps my case, not yours, because it goes to show that, that version of Moore had a lot of wear and tear on his body.
Toney is naturally bigger than Moore
He was a natural lhw fighting at mw, compared to Moore who was a natural mw when he made his pro debut
Toney has better handspeed, less wear and tear and a better chin than Moore as well
In terms of defence he was just as good as Moore, so I cannot see how Rocky is going to ko him at all, his best bet would be to outwork him to win a UD. How many 200 lb fighters who were at the top of their game has Rocky koed? None that I know of. If you say he wins by Ud, I'm cool with that, but he isnt going to ko him. If 250 lb Peter can't ko Toney, 185 lb Marciano isn't going to either

 

-Patterson is an all time great Heavyweight Champion and KO artist, and was at the absolute peak of his offensive abilities. Who did Toney fight that was even comparable? OH, THE 250 LB PETER!!!

-The burden of proof is on you if you wish to make such a claim. In what fights during Moore's peak 50s run did he show wear and tear before Maricano? Plenty of articles from the time comment on his remarkable physical condition with no signs of decline.

We know that in his 60 previous fights during the apex of his success..he only suffered one flash knockdown against a hall of famer. After Marciano..he was stopped twice more and down countless times. Only a moron could miss the cut off point. Don't be a moron.

-Toney naturally bigger than Moore? Moore was a natural heavyweight during his prime who walked around near 200 lbs, he was trim and/or comfortable at 185-195. He cut further weight using self described healthy "secret diet tricks" to make his Light Heavyweigh defenses. Toney ate his way up the weight classes..and had a little help from chemicals.

-Cockell was over 200lbs and the number two heavyweight in the world, his highest career ranking. Before we knock him, he did manage to pick up about 5 top 10 wins north of 175...does Toney have as many? hmmmm Again forgot Moore, Toney's resume above 175 can barely hold its own against Marciano's only criticized defense.

-Peter is also a crude fighter who has diffficulty delivering his power and stopping top 10 fighters.

 

I'm not really sure how many count Patterson as an ATG HW. As far as P4P goes, personally, I think he was one of the best. He to me would have been better suited as a career LH but D'Amato knew the era could be taken advantage of by smaller fighters, like Light-Heavyweights...that is until a Big Boy named Sonny Liston came along.
Patterson was a guy that started to put on weight (from MW in the Olympics) to be better suited for the HW division.


Moore is naturally bigger than Toney. However, I'm not sure by how much. Maybe by one division.

Moore was a LH. He actually started below LH as well.

If he felt he could be better being bigger he would have. From what I know, Moore used the methods he did with dieting in order to strip off the fat he used to put on because he had a sweet tooth and not because he was some massive muscle guy that wanted to trim down to take advantage of the LH division. If anything, he would be no more than a CW at best and still...his best was being a LH.

Cockell atsch Why should I even bother with this

 

ruddock says he ruined tyson..so tyson be ruinzed by him 4 realz.

 

What does Ruddock and Tyson have to do with this???


As far as that is concerned, Ruddock felt he took something from Tyson and Tyson took something from him.

 

How about my reponse to you posting Ruddock's irrelevant quote three times like a jerk off when I was trying to have a civil discussion with you. "**** you, don't waste my time with your bull**** again"

So again...

"**** you, don't waste my time with your bull**** again."

"**** you, don't wate my time with your bull**** again."

Does this compute?