PRIME JEFFRIES AGAINST FOREMAN OF THE MOORER FT?

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All sluggers/brawler/swarmers get hit. They ALL at some point get broken noses ...,,It's part of their game. Frazier with all his head movement was swollen to a point where he could not see in two bouts with Ali. Foreman knocked Fraziers teeth from his mouth. Marciano was cut multiple times as was Dempsey.

No one is saying Jeffries was Loughran like in terms of defense. The main point was the equating of low guard in general to poor or inadequate defense. Low guard in no way shape or form equates to a poor or inadequate defense. Period.

In terms of Jeffries he is being sold very short here in terms of ability. First, No hwt champion is considered an ATG for 80 plus years if he was not indeed great. As examples no one claims or claimed Burns, Willard Sharkey, Baer, Braddock or Carnera were ATG hwts. However experts from their time and after considered Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Ali (etc) all ATG hwt champions. They were all rated very highly because they deserved that rating. Finally the erroneous claims that Jeffries threw one punch at a time or kept his left straight out like a telephone pole are just that complete fiction. Jeffries is throwing triple left hooks body to head and the shortest left hook to the body I've ever seen a hwt throw. A far cry from the stumbling oaf some are trying to portray Jeffries as. In fact by making such claims you are trying to alter known boxing history. Bad fighters are never held up as an ATG for 80 plus years.

 

This has been addressed already. It isn't strictly the low hands; it is low hands with no real head movement or lateral movement, and the fact that he's known for eating punches... Whitaker had his hands down a lot, but clearly he's baiting for counters and plans on moving his head... That's the difference- Whitaker knows better, but Jeff does not.

Youre persiverating on this triple hooks to the body... So does the shortest left hook ever equate to devastating power? Sneaky accuracy? Is this telling punch or is he just touching him?

You obviously havent studied the films you encourage others to study as much as you say... He did infact throw mainly one punch at a time, as his combinations are very few and far between. I don't recall anyone saying he kept his left out "like a telephone pole". He did keep it out there quite a bit. Enough to make a skilled pro have a right hand festival on the left side of his head and body...

Not erroneous, not fiction. Its not like we don't have the films and we have to take your word for it or some other contemporary writer's word for it. We can all see the same films.

 

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You just have no idea what you are talking about.

No one is saying Jeffries is anything like Whitaker. Jeffries was a slugger, a brawler so again no one is saying he was a defensive boxer. Not his style and never was but you obviously don't know this as fact.

That short left hook to the body YOU are saying has no power floored his opponent. Did you see that or are you just making things up as you go along?

Once again....Jeffries is being short changed by low level posters like yourself who describe him as unskilled or slow or clumsy or throwing only one punch at a time. Not only does expert testimony by experts who watched him live discredit your comments (Jeffries has been rated top five for 80 years) but watching the very poor film of him in his prime shows not only a hwt who could floor an opponent with a single short hook to the body but also threw triple hooks alternating body to head.
Interesting is it not you never pointed this out until I had informed you. Wonder why?

 

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Yeah I didn't think you were talking about that specific punch, Perry. It wasnt the only body shot he threw in one of at least 3 films available.

I'm sorry the Whitaker analogy went over your head, so point missed on that one.

And I would hope to god that an ATG HW could floor that opponent with a body shot... I could floor that opponent with a body shot haha

 

The point is YOU wrote Jeffries punches lack any power. One of those ultra short left hooks that you say have no power floored his opponent.

The fighter YOU wrote had no skills that threw one punch at a time in actuality threw triple hooks body to head.

Just admit you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I did not say his punches had no power in general, I said that about the triple hooks, so please don't embellish and exaggerate to fit your point.
My point was that knocking down that Ruhlin guy with a body shot or an accumulation of body shots isn't completely impressive.

I did not say he had no skills, but I did question his defensive skills. I also asserted that his skills don't stand the test of time through successive eras. He had skills for 1900 obviously.

I can throw triple left hooks to the body and head. Do I qualify for having world-class skills? It seems that's your main argument for his skills.

I do think its amazing that he threw three body punches in a row, but how many times did he do it? You're persiverating again on details that aren't really important overall.

Since you like to spend so much time analyzing Jeffries, go and count the feint to punch, and combination to single punch ratios. I'd be interested in your findings.

Lastly, I will admit I'm mainly having fun and don't take myself too seriously. I'm no authority on any of this, and I've been wrong before.
I'm not wrong on this issue, but I've been wrong before...

 

Obviously you are not a serious poster.

Jeffries on film is very hard to interpret and certainly subtle skills such as feints are not discernible. He is shown throwing multiple hooks multiple times and throwing a ultra short left hook to the body which floors his opponent.

Fighters of those days were masters of the finer points of the game such as feints, blocks, parries, counters etc. How much of these skills Jeffries possessed is impossible to say. Certainly just because he held his hands low does not mean he had no defense.

Finally no hwt champion is rated by experts as an ATG and rated for 80 years as a top ATG that is not an ATG. If old Foreman were to fight prime Jeffries he would be fighting a prime ATG fighter. Typically a prime ATG hwt champion would beat a 45 year old former ATG. The Foreman who rewon the championship was far removed from his prime and was no longer a ATG fighter. Now if the question was PRIME Foreman vs prime Jeffries the answer would be easier to determine.

 

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I agree. Richdanahuff has no idea what he's talking about. He's either a new to boxing history, or has a duplicate account here.

 

Are you aware many modern boxing historians or media people consider Jeffries an ATG, 100+ years after he was a champion? Surely they all can't be gullible cornballs.

Foreman lost to Tommy Morrison, looked bad vs Stewart ( I think he lost that fight ) looked bad vs Shultz, and was visibly rocked by Ken Lakusta, who was nothing but an average journeyman at best. Sure he caught a glassed jaw blown up light heavyweight, but he was easily losing that fight until Moore lined up for him.

 

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Dempsey wasn't cut multiple times at all. Jeffries was neither slugger ,a brawler ,or a swarmer. He was a cautious fighter who preferred his opponents to come in to him.
I'm not equating low guard to anything, I never even mentioned it! I'm taking issue with you saying he wasn't easy to hit , he was. The report of the second Fitzsimmons fight describes Fitz hitting him at will, when and where he liked. He had no semblance of defence against Johnson at all, he just took the punches. Corbett landed on him all night.You are the one attempting to rewrite history and making a very bad job of it! I suggest you purchase Adam Pollack.s book on Jeffries and equate yourself with the facts, because you at making some ludicrous claims here. I don't see all these triple hooks you describe on the footage and the round by round summary doesn't mention them!
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