I look forward to the names like the primary sources about Fitz having his ribs broken by Jeffries, Jeffries breaking 3 of Sharkeys ribs and breaking his nose quotes that you never managed to post despite repeated requests to do so. You stated 50 historians rated Jeffries as an ATG,now I've asked you to provide the names of 25 of them that did so that's just half, you should have no trouble doing so if you are correct.The clock is ticking!
This is a really stupid comment. Ali didn't take punishment in his prime he came back out of a 3.5years exile at 29 ,Jeffries retired at that age .
This is a really stupid comment. Ali didn't take punishment in his prime he came back out of a 3.5years exile Sharkey was at his best? he had a broken finger and fought some of the fight with a dislocated arm! Why don't you do some research ? Did Ali or Vitali ever have their nose broken 3 times,do either of them have a cauliflower ear? Ridges of scar tissue over their eyes?
I guess the question comes down to whether the size of the contenders is a sign of the strength of the era. The top contenders of the day being large, does not in any way imply a strong era. A large heavyweight would be just as likely to rise to the top of a weak era, as in a strong one. Small heavyweights being successful could be taken as an indication of a weak era, but it would be in no way conclusive proof of the era being weak. You get outliers, and pound for pound greats. It is not unknown for a fighter from a lower weight class, to also be one of the greatest in a higher weight class.
In the film footage available against Johnson, against Ruhlin against Sharkey you see Jeffries attacking. Fleischer and others describe Jeffries as at attacking fighter. Whether he also at times fought as a counterpuncher is a mute point. The issue is that for over 80 years Jeffries was rated by experts as an ATG. He was a GREAT fighter as judged by experts from his time. You cannot say Johnson and Fitzsimmons were great and at the same time discredit Jeffries a fighter who just as many considered as great or greater. Main reason Jeffries as well as all old timers have dropped in all time rankings is time. As those that watched these men live passed away their abilities become lost in time. Pre Johnson there is very little that is visual that is a testament to their greatness. I never stated Jeffries had a great defense. I stated that a low guard does not mean a fighter has a poor defense. Jeffries is throwing a remarkably short hook to the body vs Ruhlin hard enough to drop the challenger. Jeffries is also throwing double and triple hooks. Body to head. Most do not dispute Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano and Ali status as ATG fighters. All were rated as ATG fighters for many years. The same holds true for Jeffries. No one is in position 120 years after the fact to take this away from him.
Rubbish !Jeffries does not attack Sharkey,he waits for him to come in and counters him! Jeffries was regularly criticized by reporters for being too cautious,for laying back and not taking the initiative .The reason he made the fight against Ruhlin is because Corbett had told Ruhlin that Jeffries was at his best against those who came to him,that his best chance was to fight on the retreat and make Jeffries pursue him,meanwhile scoring with his jab [Ruhlin won the first 2 rds,and cut Jeffries mouth], consequently Jeffries had no choice but to be the aggressor . You seriously need to do some research on this man because you keep making statements that are completely wide of the mark and just illustrate how little you know on the subject!! I don't say Jeffries was not great ,I've several times said on these threads that he was great for HIS time. Your argument that Jeffries status has diminished because of time doesn't hold up at all and I'll demonstrate why. Here are some rankings of the heavyweight champions,I won't give the top ten just where Jeffries is placed in it. Jeffries on the left Johnson on the right Teddy Atlas O 3 Matt Hamilton ESPN O 3 Tyson Bruce Boxing Insider O 4 Tony Connolly Boxing News O 3 Richard O Brien S I O 5 Emmanuel Steward O 0 Bert Sugar O 3 ESPN Readers Poll O 4 BBC Sports O 3 Herb Goldman O 6 Nigel Collins O 6 Arthur Harris Boxing Scene O 4 SI O 1 Boxing Illustrated O 3 Matt McGrain * O 9 * McGrain considers there are only14 heavyweights worthy of being called great, he has Jeffries at number 14. Jeffries and Johnson's careers over lapped there is footage of Jeffries versus Sharkey and Ruhlin,there is footage of Johnson versus Flynn,Ketchel ,Jeffries,Willard, and Moran in the latter 2 fights Johnson is clearly past his best and is kod against Willard. Jeffries was born in1875 Johnson in1878,just 3 years later. Johnson has retained his prominent place on their rankings of the 14 men 6 have him in their top 3! Jeffries is nowhere!
The more I read from Perry, the more I'm convinced he doesn't know much about Jeffries and how he fought. It's pretty telling when describing what a superb fighter he was by continuing saying... "Man that triple hook to the body Jeffries threw was pretty awesome".
Yeah Jeffires triple left hooks is reminiscent of Roy Jones vs Ricky Stackhouse... But there's alot of maneuvers that dont show up on film that are now lost to history...
The fact that Walcott and Louis were around in the 50's was taken as a sign that it was a weak era.How should we evaluate an earlier one that has 39 and 36 years old, coming out of extended retirement, ex champions ,as the top contenders? 39 and 36 in the early 1900's was OLD!
I have taken a promotion at work and don't have as much time to put a fool like you in his place. As long as you agree a historian is either a noted observer, a news paper man who covered boxing , a historian who wrote a book or books or a member of the IBRO, I'll have no problem making you look like the fool you are. So let me know if you want 25 names who view Jeffries, who has been out of action for over 100 years in their top 15. If you understand what the terms are Tony, you'll lose again. I just want you to understand what you are asking for before lamely trying to DQ anyone.
