Thank you for the vitriolic verbiage. Do I know what past his prime means? Well I am going to take a wild guess and say it means a fighter has reached ,and passed his summit ,and is now on the downside of his career. That would not necessarily mean he automatically starts losing, but it could mean that he would make hard work of fights that ,in his prime he would deal with easier. Is that a reasonable assumption ? Note lose is the spelling, not loose. I haven't said Fitz was past his prime , I asked for the comments of other posters ,and now you have given your opinion twice. I agreed with posters who said that Fitz's results ,would seem to indicate he was still a live opponent for anyone. I asked if his inactivity might have been a factor ,and if a more active schedule might have produced a different result. If you stopped frothing at the mouth for a moment ,you might have actually noticed that I said I thought Jeffries would pretty much always beat Fitz . Tip for you ,slow down, and you might not make so many mistakes. Rainman.:hi:
At 36 and 39 years old and coming off periods of no big fight activity, I'd be surprised if Fitzsimmons was in his true fighting prime for either of the Jeffries' fights. We can look and see some of his best results occured between the two Jeffries fights, but that doesn't mean he was definitely prime. I mean, Muhammad Ali looked good in the Norton rematch, followed by W12 Frazier and then the KO of Foreman, three great results in a row - but no one says Ali was in his prime in 1973 - '74. Also, it could be argued that Fitzsimmons losing to Jeffries indicates he was not in his prime. I wouldn't offer that argument as a entirely sound and logical one, but it's just as sound and logical as the one that says "he's winning these other fights so he must be prime".
Valid points ,and you could use other examples ,such as Joe Louis and Archie Moore to illustrate your point .
So that leaves the questions, when was Fitzsimmons prime, and was it even at a period when he was fighting at heavyweight?
I was talking about this today in a different thread, Fitz may have been technically prime at some other point in time, but I see him at his most invincible when his opponent had to weigh in under 152. Who beats him at that kind of weight? Nobody? Names offered up were Griffith, Ryan, Walker, Walcott. Great names all, but how can you really favour any of them?
The concensus would seem to be that he was still prime at heavy. I havent read a convincing argument to the contrary,though ,after winning the big one he eased off the training and imbibed freely,he had 2 nothing fights that comprised 6 rds of action then 2 years elapsed before he took on Jeffries . After losing to Jeff he had 12 rds of ring action in nearly 4 years ,and ,from the 2 rd ko of Sharkey, till he fought Jeffries again was 2 years of stagnation.Hardly conducive to keeping your edge,especially if you are a hard drinker ,which Fitz was.
I cant see how Fitz' prime can go any past the Corbett loss. I think it is very possible and even likely that he was as good or better before this, when he was defending his middleweight title at will.
Jeffries and Fitzsimmons were two of the freaks in boxing at this time (and hell of all-time). Being the naturally bigger man with shocking power Jeffries wins by a hair in the late rounds. Jeffries style is really the difference maker not talent. -"You're the most dangerous man alive." -James Jeffries to Bob Fitzsimmons.
If Jeffries power was so shocking, how come he took so long to get rid of opponents he greatly outweighed? How come Sharkey went the distance with him twice, whereas Fitz demolished him twice with one punch?
While I wouldn't want to go as far as 'shocking', I do believe Jeffries was a hard hitter. He concentrated on breaking down the body. As for the second Sharkey fight, Jeff's left wasn't all there. I'd agree, though, he probably didn't put punches together of Dempsey or Louis, nor was as quick to jump on a KO opportunity. But he would bust guys up at a gradual pace.
He was certainly a hard hitter,I just questioned the words " shocking power." I beleive Jeffries was more of an attrition puncher, possibly similar to Frazier, a heavy, but not tremendous banger.
Do you read the reports? Wlad Klitschko is without a doubt one of the best punchers ever. How come it took him 12 rounds to stop Chambers? Answer, because he was a patient fighter, which Jeffries also was. Jeffries did not come out swinging like Marciano or Frazier did for the most part. He took his time. Why did Sharkey last the distance? Because Jeffries was 1 ) Green in the first Sharkey fight, and 2 ) Injured early in the second Sharkey fight. Still Jeffreis floored and hurt Shareky in both fights. Fitz beat Sharkey earlier, but there was some controversy around the Ko. Fitz second win over Sharkey is impressive, but Sharkey was somewhat ruined after the brutal beating he took in the second Jeffries fight. In fact Jeffries produced a knockdown in all his fights, save his 1910 comeback fight, and according to Jeffries, almost all his opponents fell face first, which is a clear sign they were out. Jeffries could hit. I have seen him hitting a full heavy bag ( filled with sand ) and he jolts the bag back and forth, and also shows the ability to reverse momentum of an incoming bag with force..which is not easy to do. Hitting the heavy bag, Jeffries looks like Sonny Liston.