Prime: Jim Jefferies .vs. Jack Johnson

Jeffries avoiding of Johnson (which i disagree with) is often discussed. But here is an interesting little preview article from september 1903. It seems that McVey might have also been quite well positioned to mount a challenge, until Johnson stopped him in the 20th round. McVey Jeffries might have been an interesting fight actually. I wonder who would win between these two, prime for prime.


http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/freep/a...22)&desc=NAUGHTON'S+COAST+GOSSIP&pqatl=google

 

And while i am thinking about the Johnson Jeffries, leaving aside the merits of whether or not Johnson beat Hart, i do think that this articles seems a fair indication of what most must have thought of the chances of Johnson beating Jeffries, at this time.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...BAJ&pg=6254,6306203&dq=denver+ed+martin&hl=en

I think the last paragraph of this next article is also very telling with regards to Jeffries and his version of the colour line.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...BAJ&pg=4705,2467299&dq=denver+ed+martin&hl=en

Actually, i think it is how the colour line really worked. Jeffries stated that he would not fight a coloured man "until he has demanded champion recognition". It is quite clear that there are few challengers who demanded that recognition, throughout history. At the time, Fitzsimmons demanded it against Jeffries, and to a lesser extend the losing performances of Corbett and Sharkey against Jeffries may have earned it. Other than that, Monroe, Ruhlin and others were really no more than money makers who were lucky to be chosen out of a field of hopefuls. Coloured's were never denied the chance (imo) to fight for the title when they were clearly deserving. It is just that they would not be chosen as lucky challengers like many of the whites were.

 

This one is interesting. The colour line looks like it may have been coming down, but it was for McVey or Denver Ed Martin more than johnson. For Johnson, it seems that size and lack of power was a bigger concern than his colour! Reasonable enough assumption when you think about it without hindsight.

 

Jeffries many times stated in national newspapers that he would NOT defend against a coloured challenger ,and that he would retire ,rather than do so.

Johnson and Mcvey were surely more deserving of ttile shots than Munroe and Finnegan?
Having proved himself worthy is so much bull****,a coloured challenger could have kod every white heavyweight inside a round a piece, Jeffries still would not have fought him, and many believed that is why he retired ,just as he reached his prime.

Sam McVey's backers challenged Jeffries to a title fight , it made the national papers his challenge was ignored,and died away ,after Johnson handled Mcvey with such consumate ease ,stopping him in the last round, after doing as he liked with him for the greater part of their 3rd and last fight.

 

The man who wrote this piece was W.W .Naughton.
This is what he said about the third McVey/ Johnson fight.
"He showed ,before last night's fight was ten minutes old ,that he had McVey thoroughly at his mercy,yet he played with the beet field warrior as a cat plays with a mouse."

Be advised .
Naughton disliked Johnson .
Johnson kod McVey with one right hand in the last thirty seconds of the fight sending him into dream land .When McVey woke up he asked his second ,"was it a draw? "yes,"was the reply, " and they robbed us."
The Police Gazette wrote.
" By beating Sam McVey again the other night Jack Johnson ,the dusky hero of a score of fights, has placed himself in a position to legitimately claim a fight with Jim Jeffries.There does not appear to be a ringman in all the wide area where pugilism holds sway ,with sufficient inches and heft to meet the world's champion ,other than Johnson."
This view was endorsed by The Milwaukee Free Press.
Which .called for a" piebald match for the world's greatest pugilistic prize" .

Jeffries ignored their clamour.
George Siler the great referee, and Sports Editor of the Chicago Tribune said of Johnson.
"He is the finest looking heavyweight since Jeffries came into the picture.
The Boilermaker undoubtedly knows his business, when he draws the colour line. He probably has Jack Johnson in mind".

The writer ,assessing Johnson's chances against Jeffries, justified picking Hart as the winner , against Johnson, "because of his gameness in soaking up all the punishment he received from Johnson .
He would have picked Tex Cobb over Holmes!

Regarding the punch that Hart hit Johnson with ,it was after the bell.
To show what a crock of **** it is Jeffries saying coloured fighters ,"had to prove themselves",he stated ,before the Hart Johnson fight that he would NOT defend against Johnson,in the event he won


Incidentally Siler, who was ringside for the Johnson /Hart fight ,said Johnson deserved the verdict.

 

Jeffries waffled in the press over the color line on many occasions. One thing I remember reading was his concern that if a black man won the heavyweight title that it will "kill boxing". That blacks weren't good box office draws and all interest would go out the window, thus destroying a sport that had only just established itself in recent years.

I'd read other reports from sources in the Jeffries camp stating that Jeff really had no principle against fighting blacks as he'd done so before and would again if the price were right and public demand high. I tend to agree with that as it seems to jell with Jeffries' character. As stated earlier, when Johnson challenged him Jeff didn't say "Get lost. I don't fight coloreds". He said "You wouldn't draw flies". Money was a big issue. Jeff hated training and the drudgery of being champ, especially by the time Johnson ascended the ranks. He wasn't going to dive into that drudgery for relative peanuts against a fighter whom there was no great interest in seeing him fight outside of boxing men and writers who wanted the color line dissolved.

 

There seem to have been quite a few people who saw McVea as a better prospect for defeating Jeffries than Jack Johnson.

The orthodoxy of the day seems to be that Jeffries could only be beaten by a fighter his own size with a big punch. That was part of the rationale behind the Munroe fight and other names that were banded about included Sam McVea and Sandy Ferguson.

 

Denver Ed Martin was quite highly hyped at the peak of his powers, perhaps moreso than Johnson in some quaters. McVea as we have also seen was touted as perhaps the best place man to beat Jeffries.

I must submit however that after Johnson had beaten both Martin and McVea the case for giving him a title shot on his merits must have been overwhelming.

 

But I've always wondered what McVea had done by 1903 that was so impressive as to give people that assumption? Surely there's nothing in his record up to that point so impressive or imposing as to make him a top challenger or a threat to Jeffries. He was just a kid.

Johnson's merits looked good on paper, but wasn't he considered a fairly unexciting and boring fighter? That's the impression I get from reading all those old newspapers. Again, it seems to me that the only people who were really champing at the bit for a Johnson-Jeffries showdown were writers and boxing folk who wanted the color line dissolved. How else to explain Sam McVea being so unjustly hyped so early in his career?

Be patient with me. Just thinking out loud here...:rasta

 

I think you're onto something here when you say "hyped". It seems like the media was looking for someone- ANYONE- to give Jeffries a good challenge and the black talent pool was the place they were looking (Jeff had already cleaned up the whites and the division was considered pretty threadbare). Add that there was a desire to see the color line broken and perhaps we can draw the conclusion that the hype on McVea and Martin (and even Johnson to some degree) was media-driven and a tad unjust?

Just a thought. Still mulling it over myself....

 

Here is McVea's record from start up through 1903. Again, nothing so imposing that one could think him a serious threat to Jeffries on any level. Unless said writer had an agenda of some sort.

1903-10-27 Jack Johnson Los Angeles, US L PTS 20
1903-09-15 Denver Ed Martin Los Angeles, US W KO 1
1903-05-05 Kid Carter Los Angeles, US W KO 11
1903-02-26 Jack Johnson Los Angeles, US L PTS 20
1903-01-31 Jack Kid Lavalle Oxnard, US W KO 1
1903-01-06 Toothpick Kelly Los Angeles, US W KO 4
1902-11-01 Fred Russell Oxnard, US W KO 5
1902-10-09 Jack Fogarty Oxnard, US W KO 5
1902-06-19 Herb McKell Oxnard, US W KO 3
1902-04-12 George Sullivan Oxnard, US W KO 6

 

Firstly, it is prety much established that this is an incomplete record.

Secondly, how can you say just by looking at a list of names that it would not have made him a credible threat to Jeffries?

A lot of fighters have been hyped as a top threat to the champion without a name fighter on their resume. Which name on David Hayes heavyweight resume would stand out in 100 years time, if there had been only one version of the title during his career?

Even taking what we have got there, a first round knockout of Denver Ed Martin would have got peoples atention even if Johnmson had already beaten him over 20 rounds. A demolition job on Fred Russel would have been noted as well.

As for the writer having an agenda, he was not the only person of that opinion.

 

1910. Jeffries had Stanley Ketchel thrown out of his training camp because he had been to see Johnson training ."You've been fooling around with that n****r I dont want you here".

Don't let anyone tell you Jeffries was not a thorough going racist.
He refused to shake Johnson's hand at the contract signing ,and ,during their ring introductions.

After Jeffries had confirmed he would fight Johnson ,Johnson sent him a telegram wishing him well ,and, stating he was looking forward to the fight.
Jeffries camp intimated that such a message prompted a couteous response .
Jeffries overuled them and did not reply.


How much did Jeffries make for defending against Munroe & Finnegan?
Answer = PEANUTS

Jeffries and Johnson was the Fight Of The Century.Jeffries made an unheard of amount of money, equivaent to millions today.
Johnson made more from this one fight than all his other fights put together, to suggest that Jeffries refused to meet Johnson on financial grounds is patently absurd.

"When there are no white challengers left to fight , I shall retire,I will not take a chance of losing my title to a member of the coloured race"

Jeffries consented to fight Johnson for one reason only ,Johnson had the title.



KKK