Prime: Jim Jefferies .vs. Jack Johnson

Jeffries did form friendships with some black fighters such as Bob Armstrong and Sam Langford.

I think he disliked Johnson for personal as much as racial reasons.

 

Indeed. Not the least of which was Johnson's snide remarks to Jeffries after knocking out his brother. I don't think anyone here would like a person who did that. I wouldn't have shaken Johnson's hand either if he'd said that to me.

For the record, Jeffries returned Peter Jackson's bow in the ring. Hardly the act of a virulent racist.

 

During Jeffries training regimen for the Johnson fight he used to bounce a medicine ball off of Armstrong's head ,to the amusement of the onlookers.
Jeffries was never close to Langford.
He was not close to anyone, outside of Sam Berger,his brother Jack,and his wife, he got on well with Fitz ,and formed a close friendship with Sharkey ,in later years ,but no black man was his confidant or friend.

 

Jeffries was a racist, read his remarks leading up to the FOTC he was not on his own ,that's how it was, but let's not pretend he was not.

" I simply won't fight him ,unless I know I am good enough to knockout Johnson.You don't catch Jim Jeffries, losing to a colored man".
During the build up to the fight, Jeffries favourite temr for Johnson was "the Skunk".
Contrast this with the terms Johnson used when referring to Jeffries.

 

I think this might be one of the stupidest conclusions I have ever heard from those actions. Why in the world would any fighter want a fighter hanging around in their camp if they are in contact with their opponent? There isnt a fighter worth his salt who wouldnt have done the same thing if they thought their chances might be compromised in any way. At least no decent ones.

Nothing you wrote, on the face of it, suggests any sort of racism whatsoever.

 

The only reason Armstrong was in Jeffries camp was because he had a falling out with Johnson over sparring wages ,he claimed he was owed.

 

I tend to judge a man more on his actions than his words. For instance, his Burbank training quarters was open to ALL races and ethnicities. Again, hardly the actions of the virulent racist the Ken Burns generation has embraced him as being.

But since you give his words such power then in all fairness you must consider OTHER things he said. Such as "I do not care much whether a negro or a white man is champion provided he lives cleanly and fights fair and straight."

 

Gunboat Smith sparred with both Ketchel and Johnson on the same day, during the build up to their fight.
Are you on medication?

Ketchel was not in contact with Johnson at the time he went to see him train.

John L Sullivan visited both camps several times, for the same reason , should he not have been allowed to do so?

William Muldoon and Bob Fitzsimmons both watched Johnson train, more than once.

So did Battling Nelson.

The difference between Johnson and Jeffries training camps was that Johnson's was open to all comers ,and Jeffries was not.
When the Governor of the State turned up to wish him luck, he brusquely shook hands with him and refused to speak to him.

And you call me stupid atsch

 

During the build up to the fight Jeffries claimed he was still the Champion,and he was introduced into the ring as the great unbeaten ite Champion of Champions.
When Billy Delaney, Jeffries old manager arrived at Reno he picked Johnson to win,Jeffries was aghast".To think of Delaney being with the n**** r instead of me".

Ever seen a photo of Jeffries with a black man, [outside of a boxing context]?
You'll find plenty of Johnson with Whites.
Jeffries was a product of his times , and,if you were black ,they were hard times.

 

Yet, he did fight coloured fighters and eventually came out of retirement to defend against Johnson. People say things in the press all the time that meant nothing. He also said he would never come out of retirement to face Johnson, yet he did. Actions surely speak just a bit louder than words in the press. And incidentally, even those press words were inconsistent, as can be seen by the previous article i posted where his quote was taken in full. He wont defend against a coloured, unless they prove themself the outstanding contender. Johnson almost did, but didnt quite.

Finnegan, definitely. He was just a lucky challenger. No different to Derek Chisora today. Munroe, well he probably wasnt as deserving as Johnson, but he still wasnt too far different. In today's environment, i would say it would be like maybe a Klitchsko choosing Adamek over Haye for an opponent.

What a load of garbage. When Johnson started winning he forced the issue and got his title shot against Burns. If he KOd everyone in less than 4 rounds (like Sullivan did) or Fitz basically did, there is no doubt whatsoever that a Jeffries v Johnson match would happen. It didnt happen that way.

Johnson had a very good record against the best black fighters, at this early time. But at the time that his record agaisnt the best white figthers was pretty ordinary. It was pretty much as follows:

Chokski LKO
Gardner WPts 20
Russell WF 8
Sandy Ferguson - 2 wins on points over 20 and 2 No Decisions
and then, of course, Marvin Hart L on points.

I know with hindsight, wins over Langford, McVey etc became absolute standouts, but at the time, there were questions. Compare Jeffries record against the best white challengers to this. It was quite a bit more spectacular. I suppose that it is no different to a fighter having dominated the white Russian ranks a few years ago. You would think at the time that it didnt mean as much as beating the best american fighters, but today, with hindsight, a dominant run over the likes of the Klitchskos and others would be seen as much more impressive.

How was it ignored? He challenged Jeffries, and then he lost! with ease as you put it.

 

Neither of us knows anything of the situation. Ketchell and Johnson were obviously some form of friends despite what is often reported. After all, Ketchell was picked over and above many other contenders for a title shot. Some even say they fixed a fight. The most obvious conclusion from what you have posted is that Jeffries didnt trust ketchell and wouldnt let him in because he thought he was from Johnson's camp. ie Jeffries didnt trust Ketchell. And from reports, it doesnt really seem that Ketchell was necessarilly the most likeable bloke anyway. This is a problem between Ketchell and Jeffries which in no way can be a racial thing. As you suggested, Jeffries let in plenty of other people who had associated with Johnson, but who he apparently trusted more or liked more, so it can hardly be a racial thing between Jeffries and Johnson, can it?