Prime: Jim Jefferies .vs. Jack Johnson

Again, what does that say about the division at the time?

Like you stated before, then as now hype was part of the game. Mike Williams got mentioned as possibly being a match for Tyson. Why? Because of his stellar resume? No, because he did well in a sparring session with Tyson.

Obviously someone thought Sam looked promising and his later successes proved him right. But I see no pressing reason why Jeff would have launched himself into the drudgery of the training he hated to fight McVea. There was little money and even less prestige in it. At that early date anyway. Prime Jeff vs prime McVea would have been a war for the ages, imo.

 

Johnson was racist against other blacks. He called African American women...well, I spare you. When Louis fought Schmeling, Johnson was for Schmeling. Had Jim Corbett said either, writers like Ken Burns would have labeled him a racists. But somehow Johnson gets a pass? Double standards die hard with liberal agenda's.

 

Johnson offered to train Joe Louis ,on the condition that his managers got rid of Jack Black urn ,with whom Johnson had " history"
Johnson paid for Sam McVey's funeral , and also for a head stone . Visited Peter Jackson's grave, and,had lived with several black women[,who all ran out on him].
Johnson was very close friends with a multitude of blacks,Barron Wilkins ,Ada "Brick Top" Smith the singer,Bob Motts the Cafe impresario,Rube Foster the Baseball manager ,and pitcher, Sam McVey,Kid Cotton,Bert Williams the comedian, Joe Gans,Joe Walcott,were both close friends. Bob Armstrong was his friend until they fell out over money.Johnson socialized in the black quarters of the towns he visited,travelled with his nephew Gus Rhodes.
He shared a house in Paris with Sam McVey
There are countless photos of Johnson in black society ,standing with black companions,there are none of Corbett or Jeffries.
Double standards? Getting a pass ? .OK.
Corbett and Sullivan,and Sam Langford travelled the breadth of the States with prostitutes,no one crucified them for it.
Sam McVey ,and Joe Jeannette married white women, no one took it amiss. Because they were not the Champion.
Johnson gave his reasons for living with white women instead of black ones it is well documented.

There is a documented account of Johnson campaigning for Edward H Wright.the black Republican,an aspiring Alderman for Chicago.Johnson gave a series of speeches on his behalf.
" I was told not to come here."
I was told I was a man before the public,I replied I was a man fighting against the world,I'll be surrounded by 30,000 or 40,000 people on July 4th,and some will holler good ,and some will holler bad, but the most will holler bad,and ,the more they holler ,the braver I'll be."

"That's Jack Johnson's motto .That's what this man Wrights trying to do in local politics-lick em,you can put it down, Johnson ,and Wright will win".


In 1906, in Galveston three companies of black soldiers ,who had fought with Roosevelts Rough Riders in Cuba,were dishonarably discharged without a hearing ,after they resisted harsh treatment by the white populace, including barring them from saloons ,and throwing them of boardwalks many were beaten if they remonstrated.
President Roosevelt signed the order for their discharge. Johnson gave a rousing speech in the Bethel A M E Church in front of a 336 black congregation.
" Mr Roosevelt he travels on one thing,he ate dinner with Booker T Washington.It's one of the greatest honors for a colored man to sit witha white family,but it's an insult for a white man to take a colored man in a private room for meals
.Let Roosevelt be sincere from the heart and say, Booker ,come dine with my wife ,and my family. But ,when he dines alone he is not a man."
" When Roosevelt was in Cuba, our great Black Army saved him.After he comes home and hears one mnan was killed in Brownsville ,he expels the whole army."
"I dont want no favors but only fair play for the race."
" I am here to fight for you and your men just as I was on the Fourth Of July.
" There is good and bad in each color"

Perhaps it is you who have the problem with it?
To suggest Johnson was racist towards blacks is ,forgive me, ridiculous.
Ken Burns is not a writer, I don't believe he has written one book.

 

But the evidence suggests that it was not a Mike Williams situation.

It seems that a significant section of the press saw the green McVea as the best hope for unseating Jeffries, for whatever reason.

There is no need necisarily to read agenda into this, because it is consistant with similar hyping of Jack Munroe and Sandy Ferguson at the time. The only difference is that this time they got it half right.

As for the state of the division at the time, some writers observed that it was stacked with exciting up and coming prospects. Again this was arguably bourn out in subsequent years.

 

Maybe johnson could have just skipped the fight altogether and fought another washed up contender or kangaroo puncher....or he could he go get ko'd by another white boy middleweight....something jeffries never did

Jack Johnson was hot garbage.....his reputed stamina is the only impressive thing to me

When your refusal to engage is defense and your "grappling" in a boxing match is your most noted offense....you should be considered a blight on boxing history

 

Just so posters here don't confuse me with the poster above...

I am not suzieq1949

 

Did Johnson defend against any super middles coming out of 2 years retirement? Johnson was ko'd by Choynski ,a super middle when he himself was a super middle and still learning the game.
Choynski was rated by
Sharkey
Jeffries
Corbett
Johnson
As the hardest puncher they ever met.

 

Looking at his posts I don't think there is any danger of that happening!lol

 

Johnson was not the classic archaic fighter of the time he was a modern fighter compared with jefriees,fitszimmons etc he would win . he was too smart and his defence was too good

 

This is bollocks Johnson was married to a black woman early in life.Johnson told a famous black woman entertainer,"I could love black woman ,but they never give me anything".Johnson had a black mistress who ran off with his jewellery and his clothes.Produce quotes where Johnson called black women derogatory names.You won't because there aren't any! Johnson wasn't for Schmeling he picked the German to upset Louis because being a great student of the game he had spotted that Louis did not return his left hand to the guard position immediately after jabbing and he was dead right! Schmeling waited for Louis to jab then crossed his right over the left hand! Langford and Jeannette picked Jeffries to beat Johnson and both were loudly extravagant about how he would do it.Both were castigated in the black press on July5th1910 and booed in saloons! Johnson campaigned for a pro black politician in the 1930's and supported Wendell Wilkie, popularly known as a friend of blacks, as did Joe Louis. Glad to correct one of the most ignorant posts ,I've read here.

 

Jeffries was guaranteed $20,000 to defend against Mcvey but turned a deaf ear.

 

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, In the case of the poster McVey, you need to salt the hay.

1 ) Johnson was on record saying he wanted to be the only African American heavyweight champion in history.

2 ) He tore into Joe Louis style, and the top African American intellectuals of the time didn't like everything he had to say.

3 ) Johnson said African American women are two timers, Mcvey. Lovely.

4 ) He also beat a 120-pound sickly man, claiming self-defense, and beat his wife near an inch of her death.

5 ) He's a selfish ***** and disgraceful human being who just happened to be a world-class boxer in his time, though he proved Jack as champion avoiding the best 3-4 contenders during his title run from 1909-1914

6 ) Joe Jeannette summed him up best. " When Jack became champion he forgot his old friends and drew the color line against his own people. "

7 ) He lied about many thing in his career, and pulled out of signed contracts. His own manger had some not so nice things to say about his character.

No need to drown you further with facts, you can do your own research for a change and " attempt " to say what I wrote wasn't true...because it is. I predict an off tangent reply that does not address any point I made!

 

When was Jeannette ever a friend of Johnson's ? You have made the claim Johnson was a racist, [though as usual you spelt it wrong!]against his own people.You've claimed the same about me, have you any idea how much of a LOONY TUNE you actually are?
Johnson is on record as campaigning for black politicians and going on the stump for them,we even has his speeches! He also mentored black boxers.Kid Cotton and George Godfrey and promoted them positively in the press.

Whatever Johnson's character was, it has absolutely nothing to do with his chances against Jim Jeffries or any other boxer so why you go into these ridiculous unrelated diatribes God only knows!

Mendoza you are a complete DINGBAT!

 

BS, you do not know Johnson's weight for Choynski. I bet he was above 168 pounds, the super middleweight limit.
So your likely wrong again! Johnson had 20+ recorded fight when the match happened, and it was Choynski who traveled to his hometown. KO3. Johnson out cold. Johnson was fighting since 1894. This match took place in 1901. So he was active 6-7 years as a pro.

A super middleweight also outboxed Johnson by Jack O'Brien according to primary sources in 1909, a year of his absolute prime. And of course, Ketchel who hardly landed produced a mark earlier and knockdown him down later in a loss. I'd add Johnson was also TKO'd in a 4 round exhibition match with GunBoat Smith in 1909. Smith, of course, defeated Moran and Willard, but never got a title shot from Johnson, even after beating Langford. Gee, I wonder why.

 

YOU DID NOT prove any of my point wrong. Jeannette and Johnson made money and knew each other. Jeannette's comment is spot on, he had no ill will toward Johnson when they sparred for W.W. I bonds.

And finally you agree, Jeffries would have beaten Johnson while he was active champion from 1899-1905. 1905 Hart beat Johnson! Jeffries said he'd fight Hart if there was enough interest the match, there wasn't. Hart would have gone out early.

You might want to check out some other fights on Johnson he was hurt by lesser men, drew, sometimes fouled, ect...

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