Prime: Jim Jefferies .vs. Jack Johnson

The hardest puncher they ever met??? Funny, of the list Choynski only KO'd Jack Johnson. Choynski could hit for sure, but his ring record does not show a high KO%, and this includes vs middle of the road talents that he took the distance.

PS: I'd like to see Sharkey commenting that Choysnki was the hardest puncher he ever meet. Never read that.

 

That's what they said , what you think about it is up to you. WGAF?Choynski reputedly staggered Jeffries a couple of times and he drove his lips through his front teeth so that bits had to be scissored off. Ike Williams has a low ko%, so do many other big punchers I don't put too much stock in that.

 

I don't know Johnson's weight for the Choynski fight but Pollack estimates they were both super middles from other weights that we do have of them around that time which tend to indicate this.
You've been told this umpteen times and its wearying having to repeat it once again but we all know you want to be as negative about Johnson as you possibly can. No chance you confining yourself to the subject of the thread. No harm done as you have zero credibility on the subject of Johnson so you can say he was a blonde blue eyed Aryan if you like WGAF!

 

Haters got to hate and boy is that you!

 

Jeffries stalking style probably wouldn't bode too well for him against Johnson, especially considering he wouldn't be enjoying the physical advantages he was used to against virtually all of his opponents. Johnson should be able to neutralise most of Jeffries work at all ranges, remaining one step ahead at all times, due to his superior defensive abilities and ring generalship, dictating the pace of the fight and neutralising his work on the inside by smothering him, tying him up and throwing sharp uppercuts. If Jeffries could adapt his style, coming in with more of a swarming approach from the start he might be able to overwhelm Johnson, but he'd have to make the adjustments early and even so, he'd still have to rely on a late rally, because he isn't out boxing Johnson. His best bet is to turn it into a war of attrition, but he's fighting a guy who wasn't lacking in stamina and endurance department, so it's a big big ask.

 

Shall we save Mendoza the effort and dismiss his claims that the Jeffries-Johnson fight was close because Jeffries he might have taken one round now or shall we let him do his thing?

 

More like you hate when I show the facts. You can't say what I wrote is not true. All you have left is to pivot and play the hate card. Typical.

Now if you can prove Johnson was a super middleweight when Choynski cold clocked him...well you can't!

Johnson was listed at 185 pounds in 1902 vs Gardner. Suggesting he was 168 or below in 1901 when Choynski stopped him in 3 rounds is a stretch even by your standards

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The 1910 fight means nothing. If you were well read on Johnson, you'd understand and acknowledge lesser fighter and punchers than Johnson hurt him in several fights. He was also out boxed or even with some medium level boxers.

Johnson would not be fighting a 5'9" opponent under 200 pound here, he's in trouble. Jeffries takes him out. I suppose he could run, but that would not be winning.

Guys near his size with some experience in Choynski, Hart and Griffin beat Johnson. Others drew with him or exposed him.

One of the many misconceptions was Johnson was this untouchable boxer. Hardly.

A few examples

1 ) 1906. vs Jim McCormick who had a known record of just 4-6-2!

referee: Dave Porteus
The fight was even going into the 8th round when Johnson started to take over, at which point, McCormick bit Johnson's shoulder in a clinch. At the insistence of the crowd, Referee Porteus awarded the decision to Johnson.

>>>Even with a 4-6-2 guy? And you think he has a good chance vs Jeffries???

2 ) 1903 vs Denver Ed Martin. Martin had a good record of 15-1-1-

Johnson wins world 'colored' heavyweight title.
Martin was ahead on points after 10 rounds. Johnson had Martin down 4 times in the 11th round, but couldn't finish him. According to the San Francisco Call, the fight was even from the 14th round to the finish.

>>>Sounds like Martin was in the lead after ten rounds and rounds 14-20 were even. Hmmmm... So Martin won more rounds, he just had durability issues. Perhaps a bad decision, even if Johnson had him down 4 times in round 11. Using this paper on a ten point must system ( which is dangerous without film ) perhaps the wrong guy won.

3 ) 1903 Ferguson 25-7-10

referee: Jack Welsh
In round 4 Johnson shoved Ferguson through the ropes into the arms of ringside journalists. At some point here, either because of the fall or from a misplaced punch, the big Canadian injured his right hand and was reluctant to use it. Ferguson claimed he injured his right hand in the third round and used it infrequently from the fourth round on.

>>>This should be a NC or a DQ, not a win for Johnson. In another fight Johnson was even with Ferguson until he apparently went low which causes Ferguson to retaliate. In the re-match, it looks like the fight was even. Ferguson was not a very good boxer

" Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed. "



4 ) 1901-12-27

Hank Griffin 24- 3 -6 ( past his prime. )

referee: Eddie Smith
Johnson is from Denver and working as Kid Carter's spar-mate. According to the San Francisco Call, while the referee called it a draw,"...Griffin did most of the leading and seemed to be the cleverer of the two..."

>>Looks like Griffin beat Johnson TWICE, this is a gift draw according to the San Fran Call. Jeffires by the way fought the same guy and floored him multiple times in a 4 round match in the same year. A bit of a contrast? I think so.

 

The guy is obsessed.Its positively unhealthy, even on this thread which is 8 years old!

 

Triggered

 

It's a baffler of a matchup as both made their names on out of prime opponents and/or ones which were significantly smaller. Stylistically, I would lean towards Johnson because he seemed more adaptable and complex on a high level and not the mere grim, grind-it-out sort that Jeffries was. That said, Jeffries was a ghost of himself for Reno and that version really offers no facsimile of the prime fighter. He would certainly offer Johnson the greatest physical challenge he had faced. But again, a motivated and focussed Johnson figures a way to take the decision unless there are nefarious activities afoot. I don't think Johnson KO's a prime Jeffries.

 

More like a guy 70 years old is obsessed with him and defending his rep.

I posted some info on Johnson fights that were not talked about here. You know, history stuff, what the forum about.

The 1901 Griffin fight reads like a loss, not a draw for Johnson. So that would mean Griffin is 2-0-1 vs Johnson.

And the 1903 points win over Denver Ed Martin could be off. I wonder if the other newspapers agree that Martin was in the lead after 10 rounds, and rounds 14-20 were even. So who won according to the news reports via consensus?

Seyna13 might know.

 

This seems about right to me. Prime Jeffries could certainly give Johnson some trouble, but I figure that if everything's on the up and up, Johnson outboxes him to a decision.

 

I don't think Johnson would attempt to stop Jeff,do you. I believe Johnson was a better boxer than Corbett hit harder ,and was bigger and heavier, if he was in front at the 23rd stage whilst being past his prime I think a prime Johnson outpoints him.If Jeffries tries that crouch I think Johnsons uppercut finds his chin in close, and at range Jeffries is up against it. Good fight with sepia ending!

 

A prime Jefferies would be a different fight, 50/50