Prime Joe Calzaghe went life and death with aussiebum Sakio Bika!

How has Froch become A level since losing to Ward? He never has and never will be A level. An injured Kessler with eye issues is not A level. Ward's win over was disgraceful, and is as legit as Bute getting KO'd by Andrade. What do both of those wins have in common? They are clear examples of the home town fighter being given extra special treatment to protect them.

Joe beat a prime Kessler in a fair fight. This is still better than anything Ward has accomplished. Joe is still the greatest at SMW, and will be when Ward is long gone. Joe has the better wins, is the better fighter H2H and this was evident where Ward gassed in the late rounds despite dominating Froch. I don't see how Ward would beat Joe, unless he head-butted him repeatedly like he did with Kessler, and was given a joke decision in jOakland.

Americans just cannot give Joe the credit he deserves as he's British. At one time, they claimed Lacy was the man at SMW, Joe exposed him. Then Joe was accused of being afraid to travel (Andre Ward....). He came up a weight class at 36 years old when he was past his best, and had shot hands. He beat Hopkins, but the Americans still wouldn't give him credit, and as though they hadn't watched the fight they tried to make out that Hopkins won. Now they are trying to claim that Ward is better than Joe, which is simply not true, and nothing Ward has done supports that. As I said before, typical Americans.

 

welcome to esb


it never fails to amuse me when americans try and big up wins for they're favourite fighters against proper eurobums, eg

- toneys win over jirov
- dawsons win over adamek
- jones win over woods


now the new one is bigging up wards victory over froch when froch had already been shown up to be a limited plodder when getting his head boxed off by taylor and dirrell :rofl

 

Could you imagine the overdrive if an American were to beat a Klitschko!?

 

if hopkins had beat calzaghe, hopkins would now be declared the greatest of all time.

 

After watching the three fights: Bika-Calzaghe, Bika-Ward, Bika-Buté. I think that Buté gived the most impressive performance.
For Bika-Buté, after struggling the first four rounds, good outside game, uppercuts and power lefts from Buté made the difference, and control the distance and the fight up to the end.
Haters can call Buté an overhype, glass jaw, ect. The fact is : with Bika, he gived a better performance than Calzaghe and Ward.

 

I'd agree he is not A level, but go back a few months, a year even and you will find plenty of British posters who viewed him as top notch. Better than Ward, etc.......... Plenty.

I agree with the last.
As for Ward-Kessler, there were obviously headbutts, but the notion that it is not a legit win is silly. Or the notion that there should have been a DQ. Kessler was dominated. He had no answer before the headbutts occurred. Ward fought from the outside and would leap in to tie Kessler up. It really is that simple. There are ways to combat that. Kessler stood there because he was too slow to do anything about it that night. People act like Ward just stood there and took target practice at Kessler's face with his head and it won him the fight. And I like Kessler very much.

That's not how it always plays out here. Plenty view RJJ as a legit opponent and win. Some are even convinced he was in his prime. I'd generalize and say typical Brit, but I know better.

What would you call the opposition during that 8-9 year stretch?

I call it mediocre at best.

Granted, there may be reasons, and circumstances that mitigate that to a degree. I'm not interested in why fights didn't happen or who a guy could have fought and didn't.

I find it interesting that Bute gets blasted for his opposition, but he hasn't been doing it for half as long as Calzaghe.

I'd agree that Ward has not achieved as much as Joe yet, and has a bit to go. I even think he would lose to Calzaghe h2h, but close.

But who did Calzaghe beat who was A level at the time? Kessler? I don't think he was ever A level. Who had he beaten to be considered that himself?

Hopkins was 43, and while it was still a damn good win, the age must be taken into account. In his late years, the guy knows how to pick his opponents wisely. Backfired against Joe, who rightfully won that fight IMO.
He simply couldn't keep up with Calzaghe's pace.

IMO, nobody else comes close.

What are your thoughts on some of the ridiculous hometown stoppages that Calzaghe was the beneficiary of?

Please, don't reply with the old 'he would have won anyway" or "the ref did those guys a favor".

Agreed.

If Ward beats Bute, that may, and I say may, do the trick.

Ward may someday surpass Calzaghe as the greatest SMW. A win over Bute, and say 3 or 4 decent defenses would do it in my book. Bear in mind the age, and the fact that Ward has already unified and it is easy to see how it could happen. It may not.

Who on Calzaghe's resume would Ward not beat? (the same of the reverse is true at this point.)

Generalizations can be annoying. Such as that Americans cannot give him the credit he deserves. While I would agree there are plenty who do not, there are plenty of Brits who do not as well. So I will not generalize and say only Brits rate the overall mediocre opposition he had for an enormous swath of his career, and look at it with rose colored glasses. It's not just Brits who do it.

For my part, I am critical of Calzaghe's pre-Lacy resume(and a few after) but I get involved when I start hearing how Calzaghe is an ATG based on being undefeated, and having so many defenses, etc. As if many other good fighters would not have done the same given the opposition. Make no mistake, I think Joe was a terrific fighter and may have been able to do great things, even had he had good competition. But IMO, he did not.

This fosters an image of a risk averse fighter(whether true or not). People don't like that.

 

Agreed. Though I would say that Kessler would beat Bika, but not necessarily beat up on him. Especially in light of both their performances against Ward, and Calzaghe for that matter. Bika did not acquit himself any worse than Kessler.

Agreed.

That' how I see it too.

 

If you are reading this, then you are gay.

 

Ward's opposition isn't amazing either (Abraham never a good SMW, Kessler wasn't prime + headbutts, Green...) The only good win he has is over Froch which I don't really consider an impressive win either. If he defeated Bute, Dirrell, Hopkins and Dawson convincingly then I'd say his resume is good and he ranks higher than Calzaghe, however atm it is weak and only Ward fans say otherwise.

 

I have to agree here.

I like Calzaghe, but to bow out on a win over a faded RJJ just didn't seem like the right way for him to go.

I honestly believe though, that Joe knew he was starting to lose it, and wanted to leave without losing his 0 when he wasn't at his best.

But there will be more questions than anything about him. I'm glad I got to see him at his peak, it was a fun time.

 

atsch

Is it gay that I'm wearing your avy on a tshirt right now? Don't judge me.

:smoke

 

I'd agree with not calling it amazing. However, it is more than solid, and considering his age and the fact that he has already unified it seems like it will only get better.

I can't see how you'd even remotely call it weak. At 27 he has already beaten 2 of the 3 other premier guys at his weight. If he beats Bute he will have cleaned house. That's a big IF in my book.

Beating Hopkins would mean almost nothing at this age. I think its unwise to fight Hopkins for any fighter. It's a trap. You win, and you beat an old man..... as you should have. You lose? Well, Kelly Pavlik.

Dawson's is at another weight, and atm I don't see either guy moving just yet. Although I'd love to see them fight.

 

How has Froch become A level since losing to Ward atsch He's been A level in the division what kind of ******ed question is that ..What now Kessler is shot ?And I don't recall Andre Ward ever beating a 20 count like Bute did !


Joe beating Kessler is not better than Ward beating both Kessler and Froch and winning the supermiddle weight tournament ! The only thing Joe has over Ward is title defenses !! But you honestly think Ward couldn't go 40 -0 by fighting the same gusy Joe fought ?? Please ! And not everybody on planet earth brought into Lacy had anyone watched Lacy's fight with Shekia prior to his fight with Joe ,would have seen just how bad of a boxer Lacy was !!

Sorry but I never let TV announcers tell me who was hot and was not !And this whole Ward gassing in the Froch fight is a stretch ..I don't understand why you keep saying that ..But hey if you want create some nonsense for people to cling on to go ahead !


And its funny you talk about Jokeland but don't mention Joe stay at home Calzaghe's home town decisions or premature stoppages ..But let me guess im just a typical American right !! And the fact that you said he comes to America after he was past his best also proves the type of fan you are ..Funny he wasn't past his best when he so called beat Kessler easier than Ward but then is old against Hopkins ..Yet you want us to take your Calzaghe posts seriously :think

And just so you know I always picked Hopkins against Joe ..So your whole no one gives the guy credit crap is nonsense! Like I said you guys are just mad because Ward will eclipse what Joe's done soon enough and your desperatly trying to make the guy out to be the UK's version of SRR but no really beleives that !

 

Abraham, Froch and Kessler are imo limited fighters and only Froch out of them was in his prime/best weight, that is why I rate his resume quite low. As I said before he needs to beat Bute and Dirrell convincingly for his resume at SMW to be more than decent and if he wants overall to be ranked above Calzaghe he has to move up in weight and beat some top LHWs. If you think only beating Bute makes him greater than Calzaghe then you are out of your mind.

 

Ward had only a slightly easier time than slappy Joe but slappy Joe was fighting a younger fresher version of Bika. I'd rate their performances equal.

I'm not a fan of either guy, in fact I kinda dislike watching both of them fight.

Funny thing is that Bika was beaten far worse by Bute who he barely won a round against. Bute tends to beat everyone much more impressively and easier than his counterparts in SMW division.