This is the key point. Frazier would get close, and when he does there would be the kind of inside hustle Wladimir has never so much as taken a whiff of. Clinching Joe would be a problem. It's not just about strength - Ali had much more success tangling up George Foreman than he did Frazier. Also, as Angelo Dundee once pointed out, range isn't so much to do with arm length as it is to do with where your feet are. Once Frazier grooved his way into that preferred range he would be able to double his shots up to both brothers' heads. At his '71 peak Joe should stop Wladimir in the mid-rounds while Vitali takes a prolonged battering; a late stoppage via facial damage or a unanimous decision. Joe has to take some licks, but he never stops chipping away.
The way to beat Frazier was big power shots,or movement ,solid chin and busy fast hands. Here`s the problem for Vlad ... Shaky chin ,head and chin high in the air,ponderous jab and footwork and absolutely hoorid on the inside. Sorry fellas, `Klinching`isn`t effective inside work and that's just where Frazier would go to work on Vlad...Here is something else that people seem to be missing... NONE of Vlad`s opponents fought with the intensity,passion and will to win as Frazier... Vlad is not going to come out and be the send coming of Foreman,he doesn`t have the balls...And in deep water, Frazier drowns his ass... `
I love Frazier (short prime & all) and a FOTC Frazier would have a 15 rd work rate like nothing Vitali has seen but I also feel Vitali is highly underrated, I feel his prime developed after the Lewis fight (a fight that gave him confidence) weather this be 12 or 15 rounds I dont think Frazier would make it to the bell despite a very gallant effort ...Vitali by TKO or RSC 10-11
Joe absorbs too much punishment coming in to implement his left-hook heavy arsenal for me to favor him over either Klitschko. He doesn't match up well against Vitali, who's awkward use of angles while countering and physical advantages would result in a plethora of scoring opportunities. Out of all the late 60's/70's "name" heavyweights, Frazier translates the worst to beating the top level super-sized heavyweights of the last 20 years. A smaller attrition fighter whose offense is so reliant on the left hook and who ate punishment to get inside just doesn't make that transition well. Put Joe at Cruiserweight or against some heavyweights, and he'd do well for himself. But this is a guy who had a short prime fighting lighter men and fewer big punchers than he'd face today; I have a hard time thinking he'd do better or be more durable now.
I don't know why Vlad is being mentioned in a thread entitled Frazier v Vitali, unless it is just an excuse by Joe's more fanatical followers to promote their man. But as Bummy says a valiant effort by Joe, that unfortunately for him ends in TKO any time after the tenth. Frazier would simply be in with a much bigger stronger guy that has as high a work rate and punch output as himself. He is continually getting hit by a guy who outweighs him by 40 +lbs.
Vitali never even came close to droping Kingpin Johnson who stood in front of him with his back to the ropes. He couldn't stop Byrd who was doing the exact same thing. He couldn't stop Chisora but if Chisora had power he would of stopped Vitali. Chisora found Vitalis body easy and battered his ribs all night running him around the ring. Chisora has no punch unlike Frazier who had bone breaking power and thats not a complement , its on record. Vitali isn't underrated. He's overrated and his mythical stautus comes from fanstasy fights he never produced in the real world. Who did he ever beat? He beat nobody of worth that should make him fav against former ATGs.
Head to head match ups require a bit more analysis than studying a record on paper. If you've been an avid fan long enough, you'll know that NOTHING is impossible, especially when two all time great heavyweights get in the ring together. He was also a 240 lbs beast who had tons of power and a good chin. Wlad demolished him in the rematch. Brewster was a totally different type of fighter. A larger man than Frazier with arguably more power and was getting his stool pushed in prior to the stoppage. Easier said that done. Wlad would have an incredible height, reach, and weight advantage. Everytime Joe tries to come in he'd get tied up, and all throughout the evening be getting pegged which would take its toll. His name is Dr. Steel hammer not Dr. scissors.
Dino, Your'e rather poor player hating act has worn thin. Johnson did't win a round vs Vitali, and as mentioned before Vitali was injured and at the very end of his career when he easily defeated Chrisora. If you want to be fair, had Frazier fought the same in his late 30's, he losses BOTH matches.
He was no 'beast'. He was slower and had less stamina than a 40 year old and fat James Tomey. Chambers beat him handily and Helenius blasted him away easier than Wlad did in the rematch. Are you telling me Helenius bests Farzier as well? Saying Peter at that stage was 'past it' doesn't factor because that was the same Peter that turned up for the rematch. The first fight is all that matters and Wlad was very lucky to win that fight. There is no way a guy who goes life and death with Sam Peter should be favoured over Frazier. We are talking boxing here not wrestling. To give Wlad the edge with his fouling you have to put Frazier in Germany where Wlad is allowed to jump all over him. Thats not how its done. Brewster was given a fair fight by the ref and he took Wlad out in 5. Frazier would do the same. Or are you telling me Brewster was better than Frazier along with Helenius?
Vitali was coming off the best wins of his career leading up to Chisora. There's no room for excuses. All you ever have is excuses.
If you're going to use this " well look at what that guy did" to common opponents argument, then I might ad that the 5'10" 190 lbs, Oscar Bonavena gave Frazier fits twice.. Joe Bugner lasted the distance with him on playing it safe alone. Wlad doesn't have to "foul" to legitimately tie a man up, and Peter was 260 lbs for his fight with Chambers and didn't lose "handely." Watch some of the fights you're commenting on before making some of the above claims.
So basically what you're saying is, " I know how to use boxrec and that's the be all end all of boxing debate. "
