Prime Joe Frazier vs. Vitali Klitschko

Leave the guy alone, he was beaten up in high school by elementary younglings, he thinks that if he acts like he likes a sport that involves a form of combat that he can regain his dignity. He's an MMA guy who is littering over here .

 

LOL @you,

Tyson looked like a tub of lard when he fought around 230-235........and has superior body genetics in comparison to Frazier........he would look like Butterbean........and would be completely ineffective.

The lack of IQ of some posters is staggering.........maybe take up synchronized swimming as your new sport.

 

I'm of the opinion that prime Vitali does well in the hypothetical ATG match ups.

Vitali is a massive guy. 250lbs and 6'8'' tall. He is very fit, always shows up in excellent shape, tough, relatively fast, solid chin, high work rate, etc. He isn't a 1 punch KO specialist, but he hits hard and often. There is very little to compare him to from the past.

I honestly think he does well against all, and comes up with a winning record against, the top 20 ATG's. Not because he is better p4p than the guys he is fighting, he almost certainly is not, but because he is a biological freak that also is a pretty good boxer.

As for Frazier, IMO he is one of the greats that Klitschko would have most joy against. I believe Vitali wears Frazier down and stops him.

 

Oh look the dog is back.

Sit, and you might get a bone.

 

Go on you can take my dog, boxer shits for a walk. You don't have to bring it back too soon either. In fact your sister might like to let it screw her. It would make a change from you.

It just yaps a lot, but other than that it is harmless. It thinks its a boxer, but really it is a **** sue.

 

The voice of reasons speaks again. Some fans want to pump past greats up by adding 25 pounds to their frame. The truth is each fighter has their own best weight that works with their body type and style, and for Frazier that was 205 pounds.

 

I would compare his power to Holyfield's. He didn't knockout world class contenders or anything, but he could surprise and drop/hurt just about anyone with a given punch.

Vitali has that clubbing power, not much snap or concussive effect, just hammers guys down gradually.

I would rank Wlad over both considerably, maybe a top 5 puncher in the division. One shot concussive power in both hands.

 

You might be right about Bonavena having comparable power to Holyfield's. But I will point out that Evander had precision. He was also taken the distance by some pretty sizable and durable men, ie, Foreman, Bowe, Ruiz, Holmes, Vaugn Bean, etc. This doesn't mean he hit harder than Oscar but in order to make an accurate comparison, I'd like to see Bonavena fight more of the same sort of animal .

 

I have to agree. Joe even at 214 Lbs looked pretty sluggish. Of course, there is a difference between being 214 and in shape vs being 214 and deconditioned, but I still have my doubts about him reacting well to having a lot of additional weight.

 

Try to remember before the latter stage of his career, after multiple back and knee surgeries… he had a lot more force behind his punches and stopped damn near everyone he faced. With decreasing mobility his punches became more of the arm variety… still did damage but nothing like before.

 

Evander threw crisp combos and counters, Bonavena applied awkward pressure. Bonavena also isn't on Evander's level overall as a fighter. I was speaking in terms of punch effectiveness. Well, Ali, Chuvalo, Lyle, Frazier, Peralta, Bethea are a durable bunch. Bonavena is the only guy who seemed to really rock Chuvalo. And Foreman was the only other fighter to knock Frazier around like that.

 

His style was always to beat guys down with a high volume of punches. And he was very effective at it. Giving durable fighters like Donald and Bean their first stoppages.

 

that's because of your undying love for anything klitskcko

 

If Frazier can beat up the far more elusive, better jab, more skilled Ali he will not have a problem with bums like the Klitschkos.

Vitali went life and death with the in-fighting of a 38 year old past his prime worst shape of his life Lennox Lewis so he will not handle the in-fighting of a prime Joe Frazier

 

Your comparing Lennox Lewis to Joe Frazier?

Lennox was 6.5 and had one of the all time best jabs regardless of not always using it. Frazier? Not so much.

I see the height difference being a problem for Frazier against Vitali. Lennox gave Vitali a life and death fight in part because Lennox was 6.5 and thus on a more level playing or in this case fighting field. Well that and he was the best Heavyweight overall for many years leading up to his fight with Vitali.

I think one of the reasons pissing so many off about the Klitchko's is they are not super talented compared to the ATG's. Don't get me wrong, they both have great talent no doubt. Simply compared to the ATG's they don't stack up as SUPER as it were. Vlad sort of does with that jab and hand speed etc. However, he reacts poorly to getting hit. Whereas Vitali has better fighting instincts when hit but is overall pretty stiff and robotic regardless to making the most of his ability.

People on here so often assume because Ali was so much faster than either Klit he would destroy them while simply DISMISSING the size difference of both the weight and height. I don't buy it. Weight and height are not the only factor. If they were Valuev would be our champ, however, the very fact that a slow as hell tall massive monster like Valuev can fight with and beat some of the best HeavyWeights in our world is the reality that exists regarding the advantages of height and weight.

The fact is in Ali's days all the guys that were the size of the Klit's were far too uncoordinated and physically unsound to become world class boxers. They tried, it didn't work. Ali was considered BIG for his day. Before Ali's time guys his size did not come with his type of hand speed. Or since, however, today lots of BIG guys have very good hand speed and overall talent whereas in Ali's day, not so much. Ali never fought guys that had the overall abilitys, talents , training and experience to make size matter against him. That would not be the case with a guy like Lennox or the Klits. Thus I don't see why simply dismissing it should be the case yet it so often is.

Yes Joe would do the turtle tricks against Vitali and yes it would help him out overall. Regardless, I still see Vitali being too hard for Joe to connect solidly on without getting hit by Vitali at a good point of overall leverage whereby Vitali can in a instant put a fair bit into a punch and thus do more damage from a still somewhat SAFE angle of attack. I see Frazier being SURPRISED at Vitali's hand speed and overall speed and why? Because Vitali is like lighting? Nope because as relative to his 6.7 size he is surprisingly FAST.

I have no doubt that Lennox would of beaten Vitali worse than he did if their fight would of continued past the 5 or 6 it went. I don't think Vitali is the best ever heavyweight. I think Vitali is a bad match up for Frazier. Vitali knows how to fight shorter guys very well. I never bought how Vitali was a ***** because of quitting against Byrd. I had a similar shoulder injury to what I recall Vitali having, when I hurt mine it felt as if I moved it I was RIPPING my tendon/ligiments to pieces, I wasn't boxing, I was wrestling, well I "TURTLED" and by that I mean I quit on the spot in a heap of pain and walked out of the gym like I had just been shot in the shoulder. I boxed for 5 years and I never did that in boxing and was too brave for my own chins good rather than too chicken, however, when I hurt my shoulder it was DIFFERENT, I got chicken because my shoulder felt so WEIRD, it didn't just feel different than any pain I had ever had before that time, it felt as if moving it in any position would FU CK It up big time. Like it would snap a tendon, yes that is kinda a ***** type of reaction and maybe not all guys would react with such a concerned reaction to that type of PAIN and FEELING, however, the very first thing that went through my mind was, "my shoulder is not WORKING, its FREAKIN BROKEN and if I move it it feels as if its BREAKING more, what if this cant be fixed?" That was what went through my mind, thus even though I was rasslin I no longer cared about the match whatsoever, I thought I would not wrestle again for the rest of my life without a messed up weakling shoulder.

My point about tearing the cuff and junk in one's shoulder for the first time in ones life is as soon as I tore mine I was SHOCKED at how even when attempting and suffering the PAIN there was still so LITTLE POWER coming out of my shoulder. It was unexpected. Consider how easy it is to do one push up and than regardless to the pain, picture trying to do a easy push up and one of your arms just NOT WORKING, as if the POWER BUTTON only sparked a 5th of the expected power ??? Picture struggling with the pain and trying to get over it and finding out that regardless to the pain the SHOULDER no longer seems to be working as most of the FORCE of signals to make it MOVE don't seem to be reaching the right places any longer as something is BROKEN, well I always thought that if I had my shoulder injury during a boxing match I probably would of quit. If it was a important match I probably still would of quit, as soon as I hurt my shoulder my body went STIFF, that is KINDA how Vitali went before and after he hurt his shoulder. As well he described it GOING at a few different stages which would make sense as once the crap in the shoulder is torn it can and does keep tearing if one attempts to keep using it. Now if one had never experienced this then it's easy to call Vitali a ***** for quitting against Byrd.

I am not saying that Vitali couldn't of continued, I am saying, "IF" he would of continued , well if he had what I had that being a torn rotator cuff and stuff, well he would of had ZERO or basically no power. That's not the same as a hand injury and choosing to suck it up and put great force behind your blows and pray your fists will heal in future, its trying to generate great force and finding out that its not working for some reason and is instead making you look like your in some kind of great discomfort instead. All I am saying is that if his shoulder was ripped bad it would of freaked him the hell out. Ever see a pitcher blow their rotator cuff bad? They walk stiffly off the field always slightly or more hunched over with a very sober shocked type of reaction. Even with 40000 people in the seats. Some of them go down to their knees when it happens. So I don't buy the Vitali was a big ***** when he quit against Byrd so don't ever try that on me or I promise you your going to rip your shoulder up and feel like the exact same ***** that you already perceived Vitali as.