prime joe loius vs prime rocky marciano ??? how does it go???

David Tua wasn't floored until the recent Barret fight. So what? It's not that Marciano didn't have good defense. He did. It's the "best defense of any HW" comment that's untrue and an extremist view. Of course he had a style. He was a come forward pressure fighter that fought out of a crouch

 

Prime Louis...Let's say the Louis that crushed Baer and Schmeling the 2nd time stops Marciano late...Either on cuts or has Rocky out on his feet. That Louis might have been the best HW of all time head to head. Rocky would be troublesome for awhile and would certainly get Joe's attention but Louis wins. I/m ialking a prime Louis of course.

 

If Moore drops Marciano, Louis drops him and finishes him... It wouldn`t be easy for the Brown Bomber,but. He would be able to hit Marciano,consistently and taking punches from Louis, not good... he would chop him up and get him gone in the 13th. Old nothing left Louis put more than a few bumps on Marciano.think Schmeling 2 Loius.

 

This has been the most crucial distinction to me when considering past threads about Joe versus Rocky. I always posit the Louis of Godoy II for dealing with any version of Marciano. Rocco will be the one coming forward. The Bomber will need to take this one by giving ground, and Godoy II was the definitive example of Joe doing well in this situation. No, he didn't like to be crowded or backed up, but that's not to say he couldn't do it well. Even Marciano didn't like it when Charles took away his punching room in their first match. (If you want a pair of HWs who enjoyed close combat and excelled at it, check out Frazier-JQ I, a clinic, especially in the opening two rounds.) Louis was actually the shorter puncher, Rocky needing more space to unload. In their first match, Walcott really punched the **** out of Marciano while reversing.

I don't think Joe hurts Rocky or decks him during the proceedings, but more likely rips his face to shreds like he did Godoy's in stopping Arturo. If Marciano then did open up in urgent desperation like he did in the Charles rematch, then Louis would make him pay dearly.

 

...didn't bother to read any of the posts...just the thread question...louis in about five...

 

We had another thread on this topic a while back. Here is what I had to say.

 

Not in the rematch .

 

If Braddock drops Louis, than Marciano drops him and finish him. It wouldn't be easy for the Blockbuster, but. He would be able to hit Louis, and taking punchings from Marciano, not good. He would chop him up and get him gone in the 13th.

 

Dempsey, you say that about Braddock but how many people recovered from LOUIS dropping them?

And Marciano surely hit the deck as well.

 

Not many, but the same can be said of Marciano.

The only ones that recover from a Louis knockdown off my head is one of Louis's later fights, forgot who, Louis drop him, and the guy got up and went the ten round distant.

Pastor COULD have went the distant in the rematch, had he stay away from Louis. Louis got the early knockdowns in round 2, Bob got up and avoided danger until the ten--11 rounds. Yes Pastor was loseing rounds, but Louis didnt get Pastor in that trouble again until the knockout came.

Of couse even if Louis knock Max down in the first 4 rounds, with the beating Louis dish out in the 4 rounds. I still think Max would have repeated his win in round 12. Louis could have in theory knock down Max any time in the first 4 rounds with the bombs he thown out.

 

I always cite Galento, because he uniquely came off the floor to return the favor to Joe. After Galento, I usually also make reference to the Pastor rematch as evidence Louis was not an absolutely infallible finisher who NEVER let a distressed opponent off the hook.

For Joe's seventh professional match, Adolph Wiater came up from a no count in round one to push Louis to a close decision which could have been ruled a draw. (Wiater rallied to even the scoring after seven, then Louis pulled it out in the last three stanzas.) Patsy Perroni came up from three nine count knockdowns, in rounds two, seven and nine, to go the distance. (The Bomber apparently regarded Perroni's performance highly.) Natie Brown came up from a first round knockdown to last the ten round limit in their first match. (Joe got to Brown in four for the rematch.)

 

Except there were times when he didn't recover (Louis). Rocky's knockdowns get more overemphasized than any other fighter because they occurred against sub 200 lb (That magic number) fighters, which means they obviously couldn't pack much of a wallop. The reality is he was on the canvas 95% less than every other HW champion. And both Moore and Walcott were not only tricky, but they could definitely punch. Walcott had Louis on the canvas more times than Rocky was in his career I believe.

Louis has championship qualities, but he was dropped so many times against smaller, and most importantly lesser fighters that it begs questioning his perceived H2H prowess in my book.

Imagine the scrutiny if Braddock or Galento had dropped Frazier, Marciano, or Holmes in their primes.

 

Rocky was only dropped by Moore and Walcott, while JJW decked Louis three times in their two matches, so your recollection is accurate.

Hatchetman Sheppard took on his fair share of big quality heavyweights, guys like the 6'3" 230 pound Jim Thompson, 240 pound amateur champion Jim Howell, 235 pound Eliza Thompson, 6'2" 200 pound Lem Franklin, 6'1" 213 pound Wallace Cross, 6'1" 262 pound Big Boy Brown 2X, 6'1" 228 pound Al Hart 3X, 213 pound amateur champion Dan Merritt 2X, 6'3" 207 pound Lee Q. Murray 5X, 6'4" 212 pound Johnny Haynes, 6'4" 217 pound Johnny Shkor, 219 pound Sandy McPherson, and others. But instead of one of those monsters, Sheppard named a certain opponent who fought him twice while scaling within the LHW limit as the hardest puncher he ever competed against, with both hands, the same opponent also cited by Ted Lowry as the hardest puncher he ever fought, one Archie Moore.

It's possible that the hardest punch ever landed in a Marciano fight was one Rocky was on the receiving end of, the one Moore dropped him with. That was a bigger bomb than the one used by the Mongoose to starch big Embrell Davidson. What Moore could do to big heavyweights is well documented. Davidson and James Parker are both on youtube. He sent Lavorante out on a stretcher, took out Big Bob Baker in nine, and it's Archie's fault we never got to Rocky in a title defense against a big heavyweight like Baker or Nino Valdes. (And let's not forget Walcott's part in keeping Ten Hoff out of the title picture.)

Sheppard also said Walcott hit like a mule. JJW went into Stockholm, and destroyed the 6'3" 208 pound Tandberg in five, ending the big Swede's career. He took a minute and a half to wipe out Shkor. Screw the fact JJW and Moore were sub 200 pounders, they obviously had massive power, and the ability to use it effectively. (Actually, Walcott was 201 for Ten Hoff, and Moore was 206 for Besmanoff. Both would be full fledged heavyweights today. Walcott was not dwarfed by Liston and Ali in Lewiston.)

 

Marciano got dropped by old men in his prime. Frazier was annihilated by arguably the first really legitimate big puncher he faced. Holmes was decked by a limited slugger cruiserweight type in Shavers, par example. We can nitpick and detract from any fighter if we so choose.

Career wise Louis faced more punchers at the top level than any other heavy besides Ali. And that too with small gloves. As for Galento? Is it that shameful that a #1 ranked heavy with 30 pounds of weight advantage manages to get a knockdown?

 

Plausible scenario.

I just don't wan't to think what would happen in the unlikley event that Marciano underestimated a prime Louis!