Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

No, it's not what you're asking, but I wanted to be sure you had seen that rematch. If a peaking Marciano had been one of Joe's first opponents after Godoy II, Rocky may have found himself in for a long trial. Godoy II is critical for me, because it proved Louis could dismantle an opponent while continually giving ground.

Marciano came right out and said he didn't like the way Charles crowded him in their first match, preferring to have some room to launch his bombs. While neither of them may have liked getting smothered, I think the Louis of Godoy II may have been better with the short punches inside than any version of Rocky.

When on top of his game, Joe absorbed some massive shots from Galento and the Baer brothers. It also took a long time for Schmeling to finally put him away when he was undertrained. Walcott needed one punch to take the title from Charles, but Louis got up from three of those bombs. I don't see Rocky blasting out a younger Bomber faster, regardless of what Goldman suggested. Joe tried standing up to Marciano a good deal more than I believe he would have had he younger and fresher legs underneath him. His mobility in the early going against Max Baer was also credible.

Personally, I'm not convinced of who would win in a prime for prime first time matchup. (I have not decided to vote in this poll, and don't know if I'll eventually commit myself to any of the four options.) To me, one of the great ironies of Manila is that Ali stopped Frazier precisely because Muhammad WAS past his peak. If Smoke had challenged him in 1968 or 1969, I believe it would have gone the distance with neither man absorbing a fraction of what both absorbed in the FOTC and Manila. Given that, maybe Goldman did have a revealing insight after all, despite my reservations.

Rocky would have had a lot to deal with though, between the jabs, hooks, uppercuts and bodyshots a peak Louis could deliver, on top of what many experts consider the best right cross of any heavyweight. Marciano was not a master of most of the tactics that Pastor, Conn and Walcott troubled Louis with. (I actually don't put that much credence in Louis-Conn I, as Joe weakened himself by foolishly listening to the reporters who convinced him to come in light, for speed. A stronger Louis would have slowed Conn down faster with a more effective body attack. That Pastor and Walcott gave him difficulty with similar methods over a period of a decade is more interesting to me.)

 

They was no where near even in competition. Keep in mind that Marciano had fought Charles and Walcott( outside of Moorer, is Marciano's two best wins) AFTER Louis had fought them and Joe was also past his prime. Explain how their competition was even when Louis already fought Charles and Walcott, and other champions like Schmelling, Baer, Braddock, Conn( light heavyweight champion, however still dangerous regardless of weight class) and other top 10 contenders. Louis fought in a better era.

 

You're going by what sparring partners and opponents said, I'm going by what i actually seen. The fact that Louis's punches were more precise and accurate, added on to it. This is someone who made Max Schmelling scream with a single body punch. As i said above, i look at Marciano as more of an accumulation puncher. No disrespect to Moorer, but do you think he would last as long as he did against Marciano, with Louis?

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Good. I think it's still available on-line (though I haven't looked for it in a while). I don't want to convince you that a primed Louis beats Marciano, just persuade you to make the best informed guess you can produce on your own.

 

I love how Rocky fans love to take the Walcott comment, which was on that talk show we have all seen, as iron clad proof other than the prime time compromise it was .. No one seems to mention that Walcott fought a prime Marciano and an already in decline Louis. In fact, the Walcott rematch was one of Louis' last decisive KO victories. His legs were going and a lot of his power with them. Walcott never fought the prime Louis who destroyed the iron chinned Max Bear or who bounced 250 plus pound Abe Simon or Buddy Baer around like rubber balls ... again no disrespect to Rocky who was a terrific hitter but I personally feel Louis was a much harder puncher than Marciano. Marciano himself commented on Louis' complete lack of power when they fought and he was lucky as it still took him eight rounds to do the job and he still came out looking like he was busted up ...

 

Louis didnt beat Charles.

There about even, Moore is a better lightheavyweight AND heavyweight than Conn.

Baer, both of em lack skills, sure they can hit, but they were left open for Louis's punchings, no defense. Schmeling is not as good as Charles or Walcott imo.

Braddock was a jouryman, good story but dont make him out better than Marciano's comp.

 

Look at the Louis fight, than take a look at the LarSarza rematch- the Archie Moore fight.

Rocky improve a LOT, he was better defense, LarSarza hardly had no opening with his jab and counters. Same with Archie Moore outside of the flash knockdown.

Rocky was a lot less defenses minded in the Louis fight, I would not call that prime Marciano.

 

Louis got all thsos impressive kos with his speed and timing. I feel Baer CHOOSE to stay down, and not fight on. Not saying he cant hit, he could hit. But punch for punch, Marciano hit harder.

Once Louis lost his speed in his comeback fights, I think fans saw how much Louis lost in terms of power because of the lack of hand speed. Foreman was still a puncher at 45, and didnt relie on hand of speed to deliver the punch.

Louis did.

 

Power is the last thing to leave a fighter, therefore your conclusions make no sense at all. Also you say joe had lost of alot of power by 1947, but this is in fact BS, considering louis kept himself sharp during the war years with hundreds of exhibitions, then looked as good a puncher as he ever did knocking out # 1 rated tami mauriello in 1 round and billy conn with a devastating 3 punch combo in 8 rounds...I think Louis looked absolutley terrific all the way thru 1948.

 

Marciano's unbreakable will would go along way in breaking him down. When Louis was at his very best he was an unrivalled trash compactor; targets that marched into his space got crunched up.

There is of course that special element of Marciano that deters him from the Godoy's of the ring, the stylistic quirks that would most certainly help him rattle the Bomber, but is it not so that this fight just strikes you as 'the one who does the most damage first wins?'.

At first and last glance, there is that stirring feeling that the economical destructiveness of Louis would haunt Rocky to his doom, but inbetween the sureness it's hard to cast aside a man whose perseverance to fit into a fight was insane. Ted Spoon is not just talking about marching forward and never saying die, Rocky would stoop his head and swing his arms to an incalculable rhythm, experimenting like all the true greats, presenting new barriers in spilt second intervals.

Then there is that last feeling again; Louis, with his arms in nice n' tight, sticking a cold jab and measuring the oncoming warrior with packages of high-impact hell.

Louis; probably, mid-late round TKO.

 

Louis himself said he would not have beaten Marciano, because part of his weakness was being crowded. While fighters sometimes say things like that in defeat, I think there is some truth to it. I also think Louis is rather slow footed and porous on defense.

On the other hand Marciano never fought a puncher anywhere near a prime Joe Louis class. If Walcott could floor Marciano and have him holding on for dear life ( See round 11 of their first match ), I think Louis could do a bit more. When Louis had his man hurt, he was an excellent finisher.

This match could go either way. I'll go with Louis as it often took Rocky a while to warm up.

 

Both fighters were very complimentary and respectful to each before and after their careers.

Louis once said he wished he was a few years younger and didn't have to come out of retirement to take on Rocky and would have done better if he had his youth and speed.

You are right in the sense that I don't recall Louis ever saying that he could beat Marciano, but he did suggest that it might have been different a few years back. At the same time, Marciano said he was lucky that he didn't have to fight a prime Lewis.