Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

Jim Broughton: I think you said it perfect, respectful and accurate about Rocky ... a great 5'11' ish, 187 pound, short armed fighter ... all world power, heart, stamina and chin ... however benefited from a perfect storm of events and circumstances or his career easily goes another route ...

 

You are so good.

 

Archie Moore also said in the mid 1980s "No man past, present, or future could slug it out with Marciano and come out alive."


Do you agree with this statement?


Moore is one of the biggest bullshiters of all time. I wouldnt take his word with a grain of salt

 

Actually I saw Joe Louis throw some powerful left hook in the first 5 rounds of marciano fight, that marciano took flush. Left hooks that would have decked any other fighter in the world

 

Ted: What's in that Spoon ? (Just joshing, old playmates from CBZ ...

SQ: The last fight Louis dropped a name with one left hook was Buddy Baer in 1942, 9 years earlier ...

 

I'll take the higher skilled athlete - Louis by close decision.

 

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall Joe Louis dropping # 2 rated and BBC recognized Heavyweight Champion of the world Lee Savold with one left hook. The same Savold who had fought every puncher from here to china from 1942-1952 yet was only knocked out twice during these years(Violent Ray and Louis both in RING magazine top 50 punchers all time) proving his rock like chin. I suppose dumping a highly rated fighter of this magnitude doesnt hold much water in your pond...but it does for me.


But please....correct me if I am wrong.

 

Stand up and take a bow, Ted Spoon.

 

He was down on the official cards, but I forget the exact scoring up until the time of the knockout. One card I believe was 4-2-1 in Marciano's favour, the others I can't recall at the moment.
Louis was still competitve, although clearly not winning.

 

Marciano was a great little guy who made the most of what he had, and probably overachieved to a large extent. He's one of the best examples of will over skill. (Although he was undoubtedly skillful at what he did.)
That's partly why I'm such a big fan of his.
He was a long way from being an unbeatable monster, although he remained unbeaten, obviously.

 

How come Louis only had one stoppage win in his last four fights before Marciano? And that over a nearly 35 year old Savold ?
Face it, Louis was still a world class boxer ,but he was a mere facsimile of what he had been. He was no longer a precise executioner.
He was a 37 year old boxer with a good jab and ring smarts.
His legs ,speed, right hand, combinations , were gone .His power was greatly diminished,and the ability to connect with what he had left was diminished also.
The mileage on his clock was formidable ,he had been a pro for 17 years ,engaged in 78 fights ,plus all those exhibitions.
Louis, after the War was going backwards,and by the end of 1951, when he fought Marciano ,he was at the end of his road.
Marciano did what young studs are supposed to do , he defeated the old Stag,and looked good doing it ,he went further than that ,after the fight he accepted his win with class and commiserated with Louis with compassion and respect.
Ruby Goldstein the referee said that early in the fight he could see Louis was not himself, there was no snap to his shots and his judgement of distance was off.
The fact that Louis was able to still defeat contenders in his twilight years,should not lull anyone in to thinking he was still the" Brown Bomber", rather it should high light ,just how exceptional he was in his prime.

 

He did not defeat the even more shopworn Savold with one left hook. He pounded on the trial horse, who had 28 loses coming into their bout and who was 6-4-2 over his previous 12 fights going back to 1947. This is exactly my point about the time period and competition level. If Lee was legit at number 2, how weak was the division ? Does anyone rate Savold in their top seventy five or 100 heavyweights ever ?

 

Savold was on the way down he was nearly 35,he beat a limited Bruce Woodcock in the UK for the B B B C recognized Title ,that never got off the ground. The BBC is the British Broadcasting Company, similar to your NBC ,I imagine.
A J Liebling talking about Lee Savold ,prior to the Louis fight.
"I had seen him fight twice in the winter of 1946 ,and I knew he wasnt much."
"An old third rater like Savold, I knew ,doesnt improve with 5 more years on him"

 

Joey Maxim, the Light Heavy Champ was no 3.

 

I think it's more likely that was the British Board of Boxing Control Title.

Not the BBC.

The BBBC are the main boxing org here in the UK and have been since 1929.