Prime Joe Louis vs 1991 Mike Tyson

I think the same thing, plus he was more aggressive

 

What about Louis taking Tyson's barrage? Tyson has taken bombs from big, bad dudes. I don't see Louis doing the same against 240 lbs giants with skills AND power. Tyson fought them consistently where Louis fought a plethora of smaller men known as light heavies and cruisers in this day and age.

Did Louis do well against swarmers and/or pressure fighters? Tyson was a demon and on top of that was accurate as hell. Imagine the glove size Tyson would be wearing from Louis's era?!

Maybe it boils down to who can take it on the chin better.

 

I really don't see Louis taking a lot of flush punches from Mike early on; he was too advanced as champ to let that happen all that easy. All he'd need is four rounds and Mike is toast.

I should also mention the fact that Tyson had nowhere near the heart of Louis; he never got dropped and came roaring back for the win. Or one could say: Mike never accomplished a definitive show of championship heart along the lines of a ninth round Holmes/Witherspoon. You never saw Mike fight back that hard, to want to defend something as bad as Holmes did in that fight. There are manifold examples of that champions' heart in Louis' career.

When Louis got knocked down he either got up and kicked ass or stomped them in the rematch. Mike was usually done after a knockdown. Period. Louis hit harder than Holyfield and Douglas. What does Mike do if he gets caught by the right hand and floored early on?

No disrespect intended, all of this is just my opinion anyway.

 

People need to stop referring to the Two ton Tony knock down Joe was toying with him and got caught he wanted to drag the fight out and punish him knockdowns don't tell a chin in all situations look at who Ali was knocked down by and who he fought who didnt drop him Joes durability is often questioned but he was only ever knocked out after a long accumulation of punishment from world class fighters at 39 (I think) against Rocky Marciano was proof of his chin a sad reflection of Tyson vs Lennox in a way.

This fight is putting an upright pitbull in the ring with the cool headed Ted Bundy of boxing it'll be a war but Joe would frustrate Tyson with his constantly come forward stalker approach Tyson was in reality a mid range counter puncher that relied on his opponents panic punches and feints Joe on the other hand would find his range with the left and flurry he'd upset Tyson's rhyme with his power and like Holyfield with workrate and grit he'd put Tyson down while he's probably against the ropes on the back foot like so many of his own victims. KO7

 

Ok, now you're speaking from the Teddy Atlas handbook on Mike Tyson's Fragile Mentality. Why 4 rounds? Are you saying all Louis needs to do is survive the first 4 rounds and he has Tyson in the palm of his hands? That's ridiculous, really. Just more Teddy Atlas-isms. And Tyson doesn't have the heart of Louis because he never suffered flash knockdowns to come back and win? Dude, winning a fight WITHOUT being floored is far more impressive than getting dropped against "The Bum of the Month Club".

When has Tyson ever gotten floored early on? In my last post I insinuated that Tyson could take it on the chin far better than Louis ever could. You had to constantly pound on him round after round over the course of the long haul to drop him. Does Schmeling hit harder than Ruddock, Bruno or Bonecrusher? We're talking about 180 lbs heavies that Louis fought against the 230 lbs heavies Tyson fought.

Have you seen the Ruddock fights? Mike got tagged hard in both fights against a bomber that nobody wanted a piece of. But guess who stepped to the plate? Yep, Mike did...twice.

We're going in circles here but now I know you get your info from Tyson Hater #1 Teddy Atlas.

 

I honestly never read anything Atlas ever said about anybody...I only remembered him as Moorer's trainer the night Foreman knocked him out.

 

Good day bubsy.

 

Good post and I agree with the overall point you're making. However, maybe the main concern isn't that he got dropped over the course of his career, but that he allowed himself to get caught by vastly inferior fighters to himself and the ones he's facing in these hypothetical matchups? If you were caught by the Buddy Baer's.. the Galento's… etc etc... That is vastly different than getting caught by much better fighters with better finishing qualities. So it could be that maybe people aren't liking that blueprint for getting past better fighters, when he got in trouble from worse fighters who weren't as good at finishing the job?

BTW, I like Louis in this matchup. Prime for prime I like Tyson's chances better than Louis', but not here.

 

That was easy. I saw you from a mile away homie. The weak minded always fall for dem traps.

 

I gotta disagree with this: "Tyson had no heart". I think he had less heart than the likes of Ali, Marciano, Frazier, Holmes, Dempsey but it doesn't mean he had no heart. I think heart and mentality are two different things. Tyson was a front runner. You can't really blame him for that. I have seen his amateur fights when he was 15/16 and he's knocking out grown men with head gear. This guy was being groomed to be the youngest champion in heavyweight history. He must've been special. It doesn't mean Tyson didn't work hard or he wasn't determined. He was somewhat of a boxing historian by the age of 18 and he trained like a madman. He just didn't know how to overcome adversity. And it must have been tough. He was a very dominant champion who hardly faced adversity. Heart isn't something you can train. It's who you are. Tyson wasn't the guy who came back to win fights. He is the guy you try to come back against. I don't interpret that as Tyson not having heart. He just didn't know how to adjust on his own. Rooney always told him what to do in between rounds and Tyson went out and did it. My favourite one would be Tyson-Thomas. After the 4th round, Tyson goes to his corner and Rooney asks him "Are we gonna fight or are we gonna bull-****?" lol. Tyson was outboxed in the 4th round and he looked confused. Rooney told him to use his jab and go to the body. Tyson went out and did just that. There's so many examples like this. If Tyson was left on his own against Thomas, he wouldn't have been able to adjust imo. That's what I saw post-Rooney. His corner against Douglas was pathetic. His trainer was telling him"You gotta punch when you get inside Mike". Tell him how the fuk to get inside lol. Douglas' jab was on point that night. Tyson had no clue how to adjust against Douglas. He was taking a beating for the first 5 rounds. But he still came back in that fight. He knew he was losing and stepped it up. He set up a beautiful right uppercut in the 8th. Tyson fought back till the end. He didn't lose because he had no heart. He lost because Douglas was the better fighter on that night. Tyson showed he wasn't just a front runner against Douglas but since he lost, no one really cares. Tyson didn't fight like a front runner against Ruddock or Tucker. He clearly lost 2 of the first 3 rounds against Tucker but he won the next 9 rounds. Tyson went toe to toe against Ruddock for 12 rounds. Ruddock was seen as the biggest puncher next to Tyson. That would be like Wilder-AJ or Foreman-Lyle. I'm not saying Tyson had a huge heart. But he had enough heart to compete against anyone in his prime. I never saw him give in (before prison). When the going got tough, Tyson fought back. He didn't come back to win but that's because he couldn't adjust. Holyfield fought back against Bowe but he still lost. He failed to adjust in that fight. Coming back to win takes more than just heart. Foreman couldn't come back to beat Ali. Frazier couldn't come back to beat Foreman. Ali couldn't come back to beat Frazier. They lost to the better fighter on the night. Tyson lost to Douglas because Douglas fought better. It doesn't matter if Tyson was underprepared or wasn't motivated. Douglas looked like the better fight on the night and the better fight usually wins.

 

What is a dem trap?

 

Can’t see any version of Tyson beating Louis just like I can’t see any version of Tyson beating Holyfield. Tyson’s simply tailormade for both.

 

Louis was mostly a stalker who backed his own incredible offense and skill against all comers. Sure he took some punches but man did he dish some out. These guys didn't beat him but more importantly was how dangerous he was after coming off the floor. He recuperated extremely quickly and was a big danger of knocking you cold as you came in looking to attack him. He could turn a fight on it's head after taking heavy punches in the blink of an eye. Max Baer at one point threw a blistering array of punches at him and Louis had him cowering defensively incredibly quickly.

I don't put much stock in the Buddy B kd. Louis may have been falling if he didn't get tangled up but he had the clear presence of mind to grab the ropes and let himself down to the canvas lightly. He also watched Baer while hanging in the ropes until he retreated and then set about getting himself back into the ring. He was also steady on his legs and acutely aware as Baer was upon him 1 second after he put his second foot back onto the canvas after climbing back into the ring.

I know where you are coming from and it's a valid intangible. It all boils down to who you think would survive the exchanges and Louis is going to be throwing back his own lighting fast compact missiles that have him rated the best puncher in history.

It's an open fight for me.

 

Louis deals with him, on points.