Prime Joe Louis vs. Prime Tyson(86-89)

Tyson by KO. Louis was always a slow starter and his chin seemed to be a bit shakey early on, as he has been knocked down a lot in the early rounds. I see Tyson coming out blazing (as always) and smothering Louis. Once he had him hurt, he wouldn't let up, it would only be a matter of time.

 

No he wasnt.

How many slow starters have disposed of two lineal champions inside the first round?

 

You have identified most of the critical factors here. I dont think Louis was a slow starter.

He liked to keep his oponents on their feet and soften them up for a couple of rounds before going for the kill but when he chose to get down to business early he was as dangerous in the first round as Tyson.

Max Schmeling in 1938 is probably the best heavyweight ever to get iced in a single round.

John Henry Lewis had never been knocked out in over 100 fight and it is not unreasonable to compare this fight to Tysons first round knockout of Michael Spinks.

Buddy Baer is not the kind of fighter that should get put away in a single round either in terms of physical atributes or acomplishments. I cant think of anybody who has put away a ranked heavyweight with those sort of physical atributes inside of a single round.

 

That doesn't matter. His game plan was to go right in and jump on Schmelling, Baer ect. Let me revise your question. Does Louis only knocking out 2 top fighters in the first round make him a fast starter? He was knocked down plenty of times early on and chin seemed to be shaky. Tyson would jump on him while he is getting adjusted. Louis also kept his left hand down and was vulnerable to a right hand counter, Tyson was a decent counter puncher in his peak.

If Louis makes it past 4 rounds, then he could get somthing going and could very well win by decision or late KO, but i dont see that happening. Louis would not heat up, get into his gamplan, or adjust to the raging Mike Tyson. Tyson KO 3 Louis

 

Joe Louis (like Ken Norton) can not handle a bigger and agressive fighter pushing them back like that. Tyson would set a pace that Louis has never fought at before. Louis looks good against fighters that are in range and directly in front of him so he could get his short accurate power shots off. With Tyson's bobbing and weaving style, it would cause problems for Joe because he would find it difficult to hit a moving target. Which is why he had problems with the likes of Conn Walcott ect. Im not comparing Tyson to them becuase styles do make fights, but that shows that simple movement gave Louis fits.

 

If a guy like Pinklon Thomas can land on a peak Tyson with jabs and one-twos, then Louis will do it too, and with more venom in his punches. It would get Tyson's attention, to say the least.

Louis was a lot tougher than some of you are making out. He took plenty of heavy shots in his fights. Yes, he was rocked or dropped by a few guys you wouldn't figure to be a threat, but you can say that about a lot of the great champs. In a 17 year career, from 20 year old to 37 yo, only two guys ever knocked him out (neither of them were creampuff punchers), and he stood toe-to-toe with a fair few.

Sure, Tyson had the power to KO him, but he has the power to KO Tyson too. That's the attraction of this match.

Louis was the better fighter, IMO, and more patient and calm under pressure. At his absolute best I'd expect him to win this.

 

No. And I didn't say that.

 

Yes.
So where did I say Thomas put on a clinic against Tyson ?

I said Thomas landed jabs and one-twos against a peak Tyson. Which he did.

 

The same can be said of Tony Galento landing on Louis. At least Thomas could box well.

 

Yeah, but I'm not denying that Tyson could hit, hurt or possibly KO Louis.

Some people here are assuming he'd walked through Louis and wouldn't even get hit, or if he gets hit it wouldn't bother him.

I'm just pointing out that Tyson was hittable too, and Joe Louis's one-two would bother him.

Oh, but perhaps I'm forgetting about Tyson's "invincibility" .... I always forget that ! atsch

 

Out of interest what rounds was Thomas landing these one two's and jabs? My recollection is that he landed a couple of light jabs and a one two, at the most a pair of them, in the whole fight. None of it from memory bothered Tyson at all. Thomas seemed so slow and powerless. Personally i think he was well declined and his minor successes are much overstated due to Tyson's percieved invincibility of the time.

 

Totally agree with the first, but dinner is anything but an overrater of Tyson. I'd venture to say he puts him exactly where he belongs, making fools of the huggers but also making sure he receives his just due when unfairly regarded.

 

I think using the Pinklon Thomas fight as a gauge to make a case for Louis landing flush shots or even beating him is a stretch, and a rather one sided one at that. Pinklon Thomas was a better fighter than an old Braddock, Tony Galento, Buddy Baer all of whom floored or staggered Louis, and Who gave Louis more trouble than Thomas gave Tyson. Pinklon had a pretty well tested chin as shown against men like Coetzee, Berbick and Witherspoon. He had reasonably good boxing skills and was a large muscular heavyweight by modern standards. I do however think that he was declining a bit due to lifestyle choices, but he was still a solid contender. Braddock hadn't fought in two years, was 33 years old, and had suffered multiple injuries throughout his career, yet he dropped Louis in round one then proceeded to take Joe's best for 8 rounds before he was finished. If that were a 1987 Mike Tyson in there instead of Cinderella man, I don't think Louis would be walking away with claim to the lineal title.

 

I'll have to watch the fight again if you want rounds and times.

Actually, I didn't know Thomas was given any credit at all at the time for even hitting Tyson, maybe once with a jab they replayed. The TV announcers more or less ignored what he was doing as I remember. But that's just how I remember it, and I only saw it with ITV's Jim Watt and Reg Gutteridge commentary, which was very pro-Tyson, I think.

Anyway, if Thomas didn't land more that a single one-two then I am mistaken, since I used the plural.
But we'll have to take a look at the fight.

What I wrote was, Thomas landed "jabs and one-twos", and I never once suggested that Thomas landed LOADS of punches, or "put on a clinic".
But at least I know you, JT, wont be interpretating it that way. It was Maurice who pulled that slant out. What I wrote was what I meant.

Nor did I suggest that Thomas bothered Tyson with any of his punches.

I merely believe that a peak Joe Louis could sting Tyson quite harshly with jabs and one-twos, and the Thomas example is for those who think Tyson can evade all those straight punches.

I thought it was a fairly simple and uncontroversial example.

 

Yeah, i remember a bit being made simply because Thomas fired off a couple of half impotent salvo's, but mem tells me they were ordinary.

I have the yank coverage, from memory Thomas was appreciated.

To be honest he may have landed one, but VERY vague memory doesn't guarantee it, i remember em being excited more because he FIRED it than because it was noteworthy in itself. Without being mean, i think your statement demands you back it up with factual time and instance. Many of us have this accessibility.

I would never say you did, but am simply keeping you at what you did indeed say.

And that is indeed all we need address.

Well listen - i don't think Thomas proved jack****! BUT - i totally agree Louis could bother and potentially threaten Tyson with said punches. We are talking about a boxer many agree had the most impressive overall offensive arsenal in history at any weight! Those neglecting Louis' offensive prowess and danger to Tyson need to move onto other sports.

No - it's controversial because you MAY have overstated it, and i have put you on the spot to back it up. In this day and age every second of many fights are readily available to peruse, and we must be utterly certain of what we offer at times. This is one of these times. My very vague memory recalls one instance where Thomas fired a one two and big things were made of very little. I could be wrong, but have the DVD beside me by chance for perusal after your clarifications.