Prime Joe Louis vs Rocky Marciano?

I don't think so, Bonavena and Chuvalo are not like Rocky, and their faces didn't look like hamburger.

Then why he said Bonavena is more talented than Rocky if he respected Marciano?

Frazier?
He was not like Rocky, even Ali said so.

 

But he struggled and not any of them was in Marciano'a league.

 

He lost because he was facing prime Louis. Marciano won because Louis's legs gave under him and he became too flat footed to move out of the way of Rocky's wild swings. Even as late as the 7th round, Louis was making Rocky look silly with his defense.
It's funny that you bring up "old Braddock's" knockdown, when Rocky was knocked down and hurt by 41 year old Moore and 38 year old Walcott. Braddock was 32 and 197 lbs, if Rocky fought him, he would have been the biggest ranked fighter in Marciano's resume after the over the hill Louis.

Louis was out of the ring because he was leaning against when he was knocked out.
Walcott relied more on his power to win fights in the 30s. He failed to knock out or even beat al Ettore.
Galento knocked Ettore out of the ring, since you like that phrase so much.

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"He struggled"

Godoy is the only one who managed to last the distance and that was because of his excessive clinching, which Marciano wouldn't do. Louis then readjusted and rearranged Godoy's face in the rematch.
You're using fights where Louis was the winner via KO, in fights he was ahead, to prove that Rocky beats him.
To add to that, Rocky had to exhaust Louis first before being able to knock him out, a luxury he wouldn't have with a younger Louis.
It just doesn't add up.
Rocky had way more trouble with punchers than Louis did with swarmers but in Rocky's case the punchers were 40 year olds.
And you expect me to believe that an athletic Louis with his tremendous power, speed and combination punching isn't going to beat him.

 

Louis never had great footwork as you're trying to make.
Ali stated that Joe is slow and couldn't move, he was not flashy guy even in his prime and that wouldn't go well against prime Marciano.

Yeah, that's why he was knocked down and then we all know what happened.
Louis even stated that Marciano is hard to land on fighter.
It would be like Patterson dodged Liston punches and he was knocked out.

Yeah, but Archie is top 3 LHW of all times and Walcott was 1000 times better than Bardock.

Yeah, but he beat Louis and gave him helluva fight in their next fight, something Galento could never do.

 

Marciano had 10 times better clinching and was better inside fighter, with better chin and better punch.

He would have that Luxury always because Louis never faced that much pressure like when he fought Marciano.

What about Louis beating old Schmelling?
But younger Schemlling beat him like a drum?

 

Who said he was like Rocky? I said he would beat Rocky, probably knock him out, most likely inside six rounds. I think Rocky would have serious trouble answering the bell for the second round with his senses intact against Liston or Foreman or Tyson.

Look we’re done here, I don’t have the time or inclination to keep going in circles. I’m not changing your mind, you’re not changing my mind.

Again, I have great respect for Rocky and after specifically asking “why” in a thread last year I really do understand and appreciate why he’s so adored.

But he did what he did in a specific time and place, and unlike other ATGs I don’t think he could have done what he did outside that time and place. The end.

 

Ali also said that Frazier wasn't going to touch him. Funny how that worked out.
You want to take Ali's bragging over actual footage, which makes your argument very flimsy.
Louis punched the way he did, threw combinations and counter punched precisely because he had great footwork. Everything was about positioning. He wasn't a crude slugger like Marciano here. If he could dodge and block Rocky's punches as an old man you think the younger version is just going to be oblivious as to how to use those tricks?

I shared a clip of Godoy charging at him and Louis moving backwards while unloading uppercuts. That's footwork.

Patterson was knocked out before he even had a chance to gas himself out. Rocky had to whittle down an ancient Louis to finally put him away. Completely different scenarios here.
Louis also said he could see all of Marciano's wide openings but he was too old to move his body to exploit them.

They were 40 years old. Walcott was better than Braddock when he was prime, not when he was losing to Rex Layne.

Walcott lost both fights. Louis beat a prime Walcott. Marciano beat a faded 38 year old one who wasn't nearly as quick. No way to twist that in your favor.

Your arguments are that Louis would struggle with a style of fighter he repeatedly outboxed and knocked out, when most of those opponents were in their primes.
The undeniable truth is that Louis would be the only prime puncher with refined boxing skills on Rocky's resume had he and Marciano fought, and if 40 year old boxer punchers can outbox him and floor him, Louis will badly beat him.

 

Only chance of Louis beating Rocky are cuts, but could never KO him.
But if fight goes longer, less chance would Louis have to beat Rocky.
Frazier,Hagler and Foreman ranked Marciano second after Joe Louis, that's not like that for no reason.

 

But he still beat Frazier in 2 fights, and Ali as Ali would not say that someone could beat him for no reason.
Ali never said anyone could beat him, but Marciano and that even if he beats Rocky it would be hard fight for him.

Yeah, he dodged them same way Patterson dodged Liston or Holmes did against Tyson.

Didn't that "old Louis" beat 3 fighters before facing Rocky?
Marciano had easiest night beating Louis, easier even than LaStarza fight.
Louis face looked like a hamburger after Charles fight too, I don't see anything special about Louis headmovement.

Walcott even in his last fight would beat Bradock like a drum.

Louis lost in their first fight and he struggled in their second fight.

 

Whatever. You are taking those interviews way too seriously because you are a Marciano fan and you’re not objective. Again, in a real fight not an imaginary scenario, Marciano would end up unconscious in a pool of blood on the canvas against a lot of folks, I think partly because of his great heart which would make it impossible for him to retreat against superior firepower and strength.

I know that is impossible for Marciano fans who think he’s the GOAT because he was tough and had great heart and was unbeaten in his specific time and place to conceive of, because it would shatter their illusions and his mystique. And we will of course never know for sure.

But you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe, so be it. Again you and I are done here. I will point out that there’s an ignore function here where you can be tuned out if you keep going on and on and on and on instead of just agreeing to disagree with people and moving on when the discussion has hit a standstill, and I for one am not afraid to use it.

 

Yeah like Bear and Godoy ended, and they didn't have chin,power,stamina and heart as Marciano.

 

Check what Sugar Ray Robinson said about Marciano.

 

Unfortunately I just put someone on ignore who couldn’t take the hint and walk away.

 

.....end? Ali also said that all heavyweight champs before him stood in front of each other and slugged. He obviously wasn't much of an expert when it came to fighters of the past.

Why are you bringing those fights up? Patterson, Holmes and Louis are completely different fighters.

Old Louis was good enough to outpoint the mostly unranked opponents he faced before Rocky.
In just one year of his comeback, he failed to knockout about as many people as he did in the 14 years of his first career. He was a shot fighter.

Obviously. La starza was at least young. A mediocre fighter like that almost beating Rocky isn't something to brag about.
If you look at the Charles fight to come into conclusions about Louis's head movement, you're being willfully obtuse.
Didn't an over the hill Charles almost beat Rocky and then split his nose? Wasn't Rocky prime in those fights?
Where are the conclusions about Rocky's head movement and defense now?

lol

Walcott was outpointed and then given another chance where he was knocked out.
Louis, on the verge of retirement, outboxed and knocked out the best fighter on Marciano's resume, and he did it while that fighter was at his best.