Prime Jones Jr would be dismantled now by the MEN at 160, 168 & 175

Aquamarine,

What are you talking about?

What cop out?

Circumstances cover many factors.

You can ask a million questions.

Why is Wlad dominating today, when Ali lost to Leon Spinks when he way younger?

Why was Tarver fresher than Roy, even though they were the same age etc.

I know all of the answers.

If you want me to be specific I can be.

But every fighter has a different set of circumstances surrounding them.

You're just being argumentative.

Ha!

What's wrong with you?

I agree with what you've said.

How have I contradicted myself?

No two fighters are the same.

Yes, that was just my way of agreeing with you.

Again, circumstances cover many factors.

I never said he'd been in wars.

You're a strange guy.

Yes, it's circumstances again.

I've noted that Joe was also old.

But I've also noted why he was in better condition than Roy.

Joe at 36 was a better fighter than Roy was at that age.

He aged better.

So what??

The reason why you've spoke of Tarver and Calzaghe etc, is because someone said that Roy would have beaten them whilst prime.

Then you responded by mocking Roy and questioning why he couldn't beat them when he actually faced them.

Who says it's a slur on Joe?

I only said the win was pointless, because of what Joe had said going into the fight.

Look, you can twist things whichever way you want, to suit your agenda.

Roy was clearly at a disadvantage going into the first Tarver fight. Yes, he had more experience and that's about it.

Why couldn't Roy have done the same as Joe did against Kessler?

Because Joe aged better.

Roy wasn't capable of beating a top level guy at that age.

But what does that mean?

It doesn't mean Joe was better than Roy as a whole, and it doesn't mean he'd have beaten Roy if they'd have fought earlier.

It's hard to do a direct comparison between fighters.

What if Joe had bulked up to HW, and then gone straight back down, all within a 9 month period?

Nobody knows how that would have effected him.

Sometimes a guy gets beat, because he's beaten by a better fighter, with more skills.

But sometimes other factors play a part.

I didn't say muscle loss was why Roy couldn't beat Tarver.

The muscle loss effected his performance in their first fight.

In the rematch, Roy was in much better condition, but he got caught with a great shot.

I agree, that Roy probably would have always had a hard time with Tarver. But IMHO, I think Roy was a better fighter when he was prime, and I think he could have beaten him if they'd have fought earlier.

Yes, of course he could have landed that same shot when Roy was prime.

But I don't think he would have done.

There is no excuse.

Tarver caught Roy with a beautiful shot. But it's worth mentioning that Tarver's trainer thought that Roy was on the slide. Which I agree with.

Where have I said it was a lucky shot?

Nowhere.

I haven't listed any excuses.

This is honestly one of the strangest debates that I've ever had on here.

You're just arguing for the sake of it.

You've spoke of Ali shipping punishment, and I've said yes, it was circumstances.

Which again, was me agreeing with you.

Bizarre!

It is MY opinion, based on logic.

The irony!

I don't care if you mind me or not.

How have you been objective??

Look at how you've phrased your questions to me and other members regarding Roy?

Go and look.

Asking people to list his best wins at LHW, so you can rip into the answers.

Questioning Roy's accomplishments etc.

You're clearly no fan of Roy's, and are just arguing for the sake of it. Either that, or you can't read properly.

 

Aquamarine is a poor man's bailey....


And that is sort of a compliment.

 

I have watched nearly every Jones fight multiple times, and I think Roy got lazy with Tarver when he got caught, and had not thrown his power shots with nasty intentions for years.


Edit: Roy really tried to stop Tarver with body shots in the first fight. Which is really what won him the fight.

 

A prime Roy would beat a Prime Joe IMO
And Circumstances are just like Style make fights... Anything can happen in Boxing and that is why I love the sport :good
Oh and I am British

 

Mind Reader,

It was.

But he doesn't get credit because it wasn't pleasing on the eye.

Toney gets tons of credit for beating Jirov, but Roy gets none for beating Ruiz.

That's right. Ruiz didn't have many fans.

Roy's speed and power definitely made him hesitant.

Anybody can discredit anything if they try hard enough.

You're bang on about Lennox.

He wouldn't have got credit for beating Lewis.

Look at the list of guys that people throw around, who Roy supposedly ducked.

He'd have needed to have fought 100 times to have satisfied everyone.

Bat the Man once told me that Ray Close was deserving of a fight, and Roy didn't fight him along with Nardiello and Iran Barkley etc.

Of course it's impressive.


:good

 

Bailey's argumentative and could claim that a red bus, was in fact blue.

But Aqua is just weird.

 

:good

 

Every time I have ever thought Bailey was beat, he always comes back with something that makes me rethink it..

 

He'll never give in.

He's started claiming to not have read my posts now.

If I back him into a corner, he'll just say 'I stopped reading there, it was too long."

Then he asks for bullet points.

 

Mind,

Go on the thread titled - As daft as it sounds, Fury would have beaten Ali.

I've just been told that Steve Cunningham and Ali are alike, and Fury would have beaten Ali easily, because he beat Cunningham.

Ha!

 

I'm not getting personal, and I haven't slandered you.

I said you were weird.

Because you claim to be a fan of Roy's and then you set questions up, where you immediately jump on the responses and question them.

You've also questioned his accomplishments in a certain manner.

When were discussing his victory over Hill, you said 'it's not looking good for him is it?'

That's just a quick example.

And it seems you're arguing with me, just for the sake of arguing.

So I find that weird.

 

You and Bailey have been going at it during my absence from ESB. While you've debated Joe Calzaghe, Roy Jones Jr and all the rest of it, I've actually had the time to write a whole bloody novel as well having it published

Makes one think, huh?

 

I admire Bailey's posts and opinions, and he can always present an argument..

Me calling you a poor man's Bailey was a compliment.. I meant no offense.

I read way more on this site than I actually post, and you also present some decent arguments.:good


Of course I usually always agree with Loudon when it comes to Jones Jr.. A fighter I have been watching since I was a young boy.

 

Calling someone weird, is hardly slandering them.

I'll debate with anyone, but with you it's hard.

Because I don't really know where you're coming from.

I don't know what you're trying to establish with your questions.

 

Ha!

Delete your account, and come back in ten years.

The same thread will probably have been bumped.