Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Jun 6, 2021.
Styles make fights
Of course he does. So do a lot of other slick boxers with good chins. Prime Holmes would humiliate foreman
Holmes can run but cannot hide from Foreman.
Foreman by UD
Plausible, but certain counter arguments have to be made.
Holmes made his bones against much weaker opposition, and generally struggled against the best of them.
He was regarded with skepticism in his own time, for some valid reasons!
Foreman lost to Jimmy Young bruh, he struggles with slick fighters. Jimmy Young is good but he is no Holmes. Even if Foreman wasn't 100 percent that night which i doubt is a plausible excuse he probably still would struggled regardless. Foreman loves fighters that come at him, not fighters that move
A lot of truth to the "styles make fights" notion but it also gets blown out of proportion. Holmes does have the style to beat Foreman but does his boxing sustain the entire 12 round war? Because he is going to war with Foreman.
I pick Holmes UD12 Foreman
Why do you post things like you are craving an argument?
If you know your boxing you would come to the conclusion GF was a well managed overrated fighter anyways and it would be Holmes's fight to lose it should go without saying.
LOL GF looked better in that fight then any other performance I hate the notion his brain exploded after the Ali loss and he became a 1/2 the fighter just because he looked vulnerable.
"Styles make fights" really only applies if they are on the same level. Just because you have the "Style" to trouble fighter X does not mean you have the timing, rhythm, accuracy and abilities or intelligence to actually execute a win this is why Ray Robinson would just beat everyone style issues or no he was on a different level to everyone around him.
I would heavily favor Holmes as well and always have. But foreman’s dangerous two fisted attack would make him a live underdog. Let’s face it. He’d be the best puncher Holmes ever faced, and there were more than a few of them who had Larry in trouble
There was nothing "slick" about Larry Holmes. Having a good jab and moving well is not "slick".
Larry with good legs beats Foreman,who was no great practitioner of cutting the ring. I know that Ali said he was but he only said that because he didn't have legs anymore. It serves 2 purposes: First, it enhances his victory by making Foreman look good. Second, Ali doesn't admit to anyone, himself included, that he is older than he used to be.
Those that had him in trouble still had good fundamentals and where not as vulnerable to counters.
I'd favor peak Holmes (from around 78-80 when he was mobile, agile, and let his hands go) maybe 55:45 over peak Foreman (72-74). Late 80's Holmes was a little too pedestrian and flat footed with a leaky defense. Even a green Witherspoon was able to light him up and get to him rocking him badly.
90's Holmes vs 90's George, I would say the later the decade, the worse it gets for George. His timing, coordination, and work rate became much worse and he struggled with mediocre opposition. However, peak 90's George who demolished Cooney and took Holyfield to the bring might have been able to beat Holmes in a thrilling battle of jabs, experience, and technique vs power.
Holmes and his team apparently weren't that confident. I believe they were offered the fight by team Foreman in the 70's and they turned it down. I think the very young pre-championship Holmes lacked the confidence and experience he gained from beating big punchers like Shavers to survive a relentless peak Foreman.
Is there any other fight where Foreman actually cuts the ring against a good fighter?
I remember Jimmy Young volunteering to go to the ropes and even standing toe to toe with Foreman when he saw an opening but never being forced to do anything outside his usual "Fighting style"
While it's true Ali could be self serving or hype himself up directly or indirectly, i think he was telling the truth in regards to cutting off the ring.
We can see him actually try to use lateral movement in the 1st round and then he changes strategy. And we can see in other fight Foreman was able to stalk and cut off the ring against a retreating Norton for instance.