Prime Larry Holmes beats any version of Foreman

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MarkusFlorez99, Jun 6, 2021.

  1. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Me llamo Sangria. That's Spanish for...Sangria. Nice to finally meet you, since we're both named after alcoholic beverages that, at the end of the night, will leave you looking for that soft spot on the pavement.

    I'm just a man who believes Mike Tyson is the #1 heavyweight Head-2-Head of all time. I'm also on the fence in regards to George Foreman's greatness: was he on his way to becoming the best heavyweight of all time until Ali tripped him up in Zaire, or is he overrated because his 2 wins over Frazier and Norton and his career saving KO of Moorer are what barely places him in the heavyweight Top 10?
     
  2. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Holmes was dropped by Snipes and Foreman was dropped by Young and Lyle. I don't see what makes Lyle or Snipes better punchers than guys Vitali fought. A lot of the opposition argument involves circular logic. If a fighter struggles with his opposition that is often seen as proof they are dangeruos while if they win easily it is seen as evidence they are not very good.
     
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  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's not about opinions. If you say someone is carefully managed and cherry picking yet they fought 6 of the best fighters of their era, that's historically inaccurate. Again I ask who were all these top rated fighters he missed in the 70's?
     
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  4. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah I've seen the fight. It did get tested, against a sloppy old Lewis with horrible stamina. And he lost.

    I'm not suggesting Vitali had a bad chin, he clearly had a great one to have no knockouts and only 2 knockdowns in more than 40 fights. But to suggest he had one of the best chins of all time requires some convincing. His competition was abysmal and he rarely got hit outside of fights like Chisora, sanders, and an old Lewis. There are several other heavyweights who took way more punishment than Vitali with far more proven chins against better competition. That was the context of where the disagreement started.
     
  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Uh, Holmes shook off bombs from weaver, shavers (2x), smith (2x), Witherspoon, McCall, and Mercer. The only man to stop Holmes was a prime Tyson, a fight he took on short notice when he was old and inactive.

    Foreman took bombs from Frazier (2x), Chuvalo, Norton, Lyle, Morrison, Briggs, Cooney, Stewart, Cooper. The only man to stop Foreman was Ali, in a hot outdoor muggy ring after punching himself out and eating dozens of counters over and over.

    The best punchers Vitali fought were peter, sanders, Areola, Briggs, and Lennox. All 5 of these opponents were old and in their Late 30's other than Areola. Areola, peter, and Briggs were flat footed 1 dimensional sluggers with zero head movement. Briggs and areola looked absolutely horrendous and barely landed anything and were basically sitting ducks getting pounded on by Vitali round after round having almost no success at all. Sanders clipped Vitali a few times and then basically just took a beating. Peter was a caveman who just kept running into shots over and over and didn't land much either. Lennox was old, fat, had a horrible gas tank, and threw lots of wild sloppy punches. In fact, Lennox didn't even get full leverage on a lot of his punches since they fought mostly on the inside with lots of ugly wrestling and leaning.

    Holmes and Foreman mostly fought punchers who were in their prime and had far better skill, timing, and accuracy than the basic brawlers Vitali beat. There's honestly no comparison. Vitali had worse competition, fought less punchers, and his chin was not tested as much as Holmes and Foreman.
     
  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    If they looked horrendous maybe its because Vitali had the skills to make them look bad. I don't see how Cooper, Briggs, Stewart, or Morrison can be classed as big punchers given their lack of kayos over durable opponents. They made their reputations beating guys outside the top 10 who were not renowned for durability. If your going to try to classify these guys as dangerous punchers than Chisora and Hide should count as punchers for Vitali. Chisora probably beats Briggs, Stewart, Cooper and Morrison.

    I wouldn't rate Norton or Chuvalo as especially big punchers and they got taken out before they could land much in any case.
     
  7. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not especially big, but notably hard punchers. Norton was no joke in the punch department...as you probably know, not being Foreman or Shavers or Wilder's level in that realm doesn't make you a featherfist.
     
  8. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Being happy means having less. Full Member

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    Re-read what I have said whenever you ask the same questions and figure it.
     
  9. FuryisGOAT

    FuryisGOAT New Member Full Member

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    Holmes 78 vs foreman 73 is a holmes win by KO late rounds.

    holmes 92 vs foreman 91 is a holmes near shut out win on points.

    foreman makes my top 10 heavyweights easy but holmes is top 3
     
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  10. FuryisGOAT

    FuryisGOAT New Member Full Member

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    Basically in the 70s or 90s Holmes jabs his head off and outmaneuvers him
     
  11. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    They looked horrendous in other fights too. :lol:

    Briggs, Peter, and Areola weren't exactly poster boys for the sweet science. They were cavemen.

    You don't see how Cooper, Briggs, Stewart, or Morrison can be classified as big punchers? Did you watch any of their fights...?

    If they aren't classified as big punchers for not having KO's over very durable opponents, then literally no one Vitali beat was a big puncher. Brilliant. :lol:
     
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  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is no need as my question was rhetorical. Your statement made no sense. There is literally no world class opponent Foreman avoided in the 70's.
     
  13. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Corrie Sanders brutally stopped Wladimir Klitschko early. That's an impressive display of power against a guy whose other stoppage losses are due to fatigue. He also happen to be ranked in the top 5. Certainly I find it more impressive than any stoppage win by Morrison, Stewart, etc. I wouldn't classify Sanders, Arreola, Chisora, or Hide as cavemen. An Arreola years removed from his prime just gave Ruiz a great fight and certainly didn't display caveman skills.

    I don't know why you are bringing up Briggs. I never tried to cite him as an example of Vitali's durability given he was shot.
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nobody on the face of the Earth considers Wladmir Klitschko a "durable" boxer, except perhaps the nutjob fanboy Mendoza. Wladmir hit the deck at least a dozen times throughout his his career and was stopped multiple times.

    So no, according to your own logic Sanders does not count as an elite power puncher since he never KOd any durable world class fighters.

    Yes areola and Peter are cavemen. The boxers Foreman and Holmes fought have highlight reels of their sweet science on display with many breakdowns on YouTube explaining the mechanics of their style and ring IQ. Literally nobody is studying film of Peter or Areola. :lol:

    I didn't call Hide or Sanders cavemen, but if you consider them big punchers then certainly the boxers Foreman and Holmes took punches from such as Morrison, Cooney, Shavers, etc are big punchers. You are being ridiculous and you know it. For the record, some common opponents of Morrison claimed he hit harder than Tyson. May or may not be true, but definitely worth thinking about in light of this discussion. Never in my life did I imagine someone would dispute Morrison's status as a big puncher, this is comedy.
     
  15. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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