Prime Larry Holmes Vs Prime Joe Frazier???

But I wouldn't. I didn't rule it out, but I just don't see it being likely. If I had a twin brother that went to Frazier's gym, there would be a good chance he would have been shot dead by now. But other than that, no, he wouldn't rule out Frazier being dropped because he's never been dropped by a massive puncher. Ali had him pretty well hurt in the 11th of their 2nd fight (I think, I don't remember which fight or round).

 

the guys that had Holmes down and hurt Shavers was about a 1/2 an inch taller than Joe and Kevin Issac had him down, Nick Wells Ko'd Holmes 2 times in the amatuers and Nick was about 5"10 1/2, ok Frazier was more of a one handed fighter( the Hook was Ali's krytonite the RIGHT was Holmes) but he was still relentless and Tyson was about 5'10 1.2 AND HE ko'D hOLMES ( AN OLDER VERSION) so the knife cuts both ways

 

Flash knock down. Larry stopped him shortly after.

 

When did Ali have the fire power to take out Frazier? The fact is he didn't, but he still won 2 out of 3. Holmes actually had more power than Ali, and had the luxury of sparring with Frazier in his prospect days, which is an advantage that Ali didn' have either. Also, tell me when Holmes was ever dropped by a left hook? Ali was dropped by several. When was Ali dropped by a right? Rarely if ever. Holmes was floored by a few right handers. Get my drift? Ali and Holmes were nothing like each other.

 

I'm glad to hear you really care about your brother. :good
It was the 2nd round of the second fight, by the way. And Frazier was not nearly as hurt as Ali was on several occasions in their first fight when both were closest to their peaks.

Ali did not have the firepower to take out Frazier and that's why Frazier gave him hell! He beat Ali when both were close their primes. Ali won the later two, but neither was an easy victory and Frazier slowed down faster than Ali because of his style. In other words, Ali was in deep trouble. Holmes is not as great as Ali. Frazier proved he can beat a great, master boxer. Holmes never beat a swarmer even close to the class of Frazier. That is not to say he couldn't, of course, but i'd take my chances with Frazier by a close decision in this one.

 

Did the ref screw things up int he 2nd roudn when Ali buzzed Frazier? Someone here said he did.

I think Ali had the fire power to take Frazier out. Indeed hurt him in the 2nd match, and stopped him in the 3rd match. Holmes was better equipped to defeat a guy like Frazier. Holmes had a top uppercut, a better guard, rested less on the ropes, and mixed in body shots.

Frazier best and only dangerous weapon ( the hook ) was Ali's weakness. This weakness was magnified by Ali taking numerous breaks on the ropes. Holmes did not spend much time on the topes. Holmes also did not get caught by hook. In fact Holmes had the ability to take certain things away from fighters. Cooney's hook did not land much on Holmes, and it was harder and had more range than Fraziers.

Holmes fought and defeated a few attack dog type of fighters. Snipes, who was more durable than Frazier was comes to mind.

 

Taking away Cooney's hook, and taking away Frazier's hook should not even be mentioned together. Cooney never ever beat a name fighter anywhere near his prime. He was one of the most overhyped challengers in history. Awesome raw power but no command of even the basics. It's a pity he wasn't brought along properly, but even then he may not have had the temperment for long term boxing.

Snipes was a hot and cold contender that wasn't really THAT good. A guy like Quarry would bust him up. I think you might be slightly underrating Frazier's durability. He was only ever stopped by Foreman, not exactly a disgrace. He was hurt a few times but Larry himself was dropped quite a bit and hurt many times. Both have very decent durability even if they hit the deck. I'd highly doubt Snipes was much more durable, Coetzee had him up and down like a yoyo.

 

Its one of those pairings which could go either way, and the balance may ultimatelty be tipped one way or other by as little as a dozen full blooded shots?? In the early rounds when fresh will Larry find time to compose and execute, and catch Joe coming in with some heavy Flush Right Crosses which might hymatoma Joe up and allow Larry to Build a landing pad for his heavy Jab, and those Cruder but effective Clubbing Rights Larry Employs when he feels the time is right to terminate proceedings ??

Or does This Prime Joe Suffocate Larry with his Extreme Pressure, Bobing Weaving and Jinking past Larrys Hurried Jabs, to Rip To body and Head in those Drilled Number sequences as Barked out by Yancey Durham 6-6-2 Body-Body-Head 6-2-2 Body-Head-Head….??
Both men are will warriors who will exceed their normal physical tolerance levels, the will to impose upon, and the will not to be imposed upon, which barring cuts, will probably ensure both paties will have to battle through the exhaustion barriers that this deadlocked mentality will indeed impose on each other's bodies, but as to these tariffs, they instinctively would agree with themselves to recognise the pain the hurt the trauma later…perhaps the next day,,in a dark room with dark glasses….but during their match their desire will fuel their bodies beyond natural resourse…

Larry would be Approx 211 -213lb with Joe Approx 207-209lb so no real advantage to Larry in that regard, and neither seems to me to be capable of taking out the other Early, unlike shavers or weaver Joe does not Plod Forward so Larry will not enjoy time to fully Compose and Execute and will have to move to Create his own Punching Room, and Larry whilst a highly capable mover, usually does it sprarodicly to break up the monotony, shake up some rythme, and generally when he wishes to move, he much prefers to settle into a slide to side and counter regime, with lots of standing off and always at a distence to suit himself, But Joe will not play ball with this, he will be seeking to hussle, bussle and Tussle Larry off Kilter and launching from a moving platform is always harder then from anchoured foundations, where Ali moves through seer exhuberance and perhaps a desire to Look Pretty at all times, Larry is not adverse to winning ugly, so unlike a the rusty Ali, Larry will seek to gain Maximum Advantage for his output even if it does not look pretty, Thats a big plus

Neither can really afford to coast, if Joe stands off to any great degree he allows Larry Full Extension on his punches Joe must deny him that, but Larry will probably be forced, perhaps from the 5th to Negate Joe with clinches and perhaps some leaning on, perhaps whilst looking/hopeing for a Weaver Type uppercut, as a strategy whether imposed or not, it may indeed pay a benefit early in denying Joe the opportunity to create too early a damaging impression, however if you do not disrupt Joe drastically his Rhytmatic Pattern will be Set and Joe, once Smoking, will be Awfully Hard to dislodge or derail, the heart certainly leans towards this March 8th 71 Ripping, Snorting, Pressure-Hooker to introduce Holmes to a Dance the type of which he has Never encountered before…But the Head…The Head tells me that Joe does not achieve the Ref's Gentlemans Excuse me !

Larry Has the Skill The Will the Adroitness, and Minimalist Approach to squardering energy, combined with his particular Bogey Punch Seeming to be the Right Cross, in Nature, a No-Go for Joe, that I can see an Early Rounds Larry Making those Few Impressive Early Connection which will sow the facial Hematoma and contusion seeds in Joe, which will germinate in the last Quarter, in between Joe will be on the Point of Disembolwing Larry with his inside work, and with Larry being repeatedly rattled when Joe suddenly switches a hook to the head, but a wary Larry, unlike Ali, never Showboating, denies Joe the full force flush connection he is constantly searching for, as they enter the final 3 rounds they are pretty much level, and on the point of Exhaustion, Joe Snorting Still, but more to clear Blood hampering his Breathing, Hematomas and contusions seeming to cast shadows on his own face from the overhead ring lights, and Larry His blooded Mouth Agape, sweat pourind down his face, the whites of his eyes Visible every time Joe Now Bundles him to the ropes, they grunt in unison, Joe in the manical effort of giving, and Larry taking no pleasure in receiving, Its gone Primeval. Manila comes to Vagas,....

But this time its not slow tired heavy veterans, - But Lean Mean Prime Fistic Machines - at least that’s how they started out, Come the 12th (?) we come to something of a Junction, one route leads to victory and one to defeat, and with the general opinion being that both are level on the cards, and with both now operating in that twilight world of numbed senses, and looking like extras from the Sam Remi stable, the outcame can now be decided by as little as five good punche either way,....

I can see Larry Catching a slower to close Joe with heavy Right coming in, and A tremor in Joes Knees betraying him, which is a cue for Larry to extend his Left as a measuring Stick and Start Clubbing with the Right, Crude but Effective, Joe Sags Against the Ropes, Swaying like a Sick Sycamore in a Hurricane, the Ref Jumps in to wave it off just as Durhams white towel flutters in, Larry is lead off to his Corner Stool but is very grateful that l it is brought half way to him……Joe Spits blood and tells Durham "i want him Again"..…Wills and Skills were level ….But Larrys no waste policy paid dividends,,,and those Half Dozen or so balance tipping Punches…… .

( Ask me Tomorrow and i might lean Joe's way, with Joes momentum carring him to victory, its probably that close...)

 

Well, at the end, Joe may or may not have been been "Swaying like a Sick Sycamore in a Hurricane", but he would be looking down at Holmes who would be lying on the canvas in a fetal position.

Too much smoke for ol' Larry, me thinks.

 

This all depends on which version of Frazier were talking about. If Holmes fought the 1969 - 1971 version, I'd say he probably gets knocked out late or loses a unanimous decision. If Holmes fought the same Frazier that Foreman whupped in 1973, Holmes would probably win by a unanimous decision or late round stoppage a la Manilla. I can't see Holmes knocking out Frazier but he could probably beat the post Foreman, post Manilla Frazier. I disagree with the fact that people place too much emphasis on the fight of the century when comparing Frazier. Frazier was at his absolute best I think just prior to the FOTC. The Ali that he fought in 1971 hit much harder and took a better punch than the pre exile 1960's Ali.

 

This is corect but as you can see in my post I'm simply making the point of Holmes' ability to overcome a crisis , you saw what happened when Shavers dropped Holmes , it looked over. Holmes did tremendously well to wim that fight.

 

Excellent post. (which means I agree, haha)

Frazier, to my way of thinking, hit his peak with the Ellis fight in 1970.

Prime Joe handles prime Larry, imo.

 

The one thing shining thru here is just how very little separate these two, and i could not agree more. Anyones fight this one.

 

frazier by ko from his relentless hooks.

 

If stepping up in class means losing in close impressionable fights to Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes, then I really have to question your understanding of the term awful.