Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Mike Tyson

Nice post.

 

I was going to respond to some post but no need to you answered. I agree with this :good

 

Good post, but I disagree with 2 things.

The first with Holmes looking like a million dollars against mediocre competition, from what I've seen, he usually fought down to his competition. He needed big money/big fights to be motivated and to truly be at his best.

The second thing I disagree with, and it's not much of a disagreement but more of a comment on something. You say Holmes showed a vulnerability to punchers, yet out of 75 fights, he was only down in 4 of them (not counting the BS Butterbean call). He was dropped only once in 22 complete rounds against a person who many call the hardest puncher of all time, and who Shavers himself has said it was the hardest punch he ever landed. Once against Kevin Isaac early in his career. Once against Renaldo Snipes, and obviously there was the Tyson demolition. He was never put down in his comeback, even when facing hard punchers like Ray Mercer and Oliver McCall (who had just knocked out Lewis with the same right hand Holmes is being accused of being so vulnerable to be hit with). I think Holmes's chin is either being downplayed because of 2 fights, or his bad habit is being exagerated.

 

Mercer and Mcall were not big punchers. Who has Mercer knocked out thats made him such a big powerpuncher? Same with Mcall, he has adequate power, but nothing spectacular. Remember Lewis got up from that Mcall shot, which came from right field. Outside of Morrison Mercer really has no top level Ko's.
The truth is most of his comeback fights were against decent opposition noone great, noone with the speed and power to take advantage of his vulnerabities.

 

Shavers let a lot of fighters get up from KD's or being hurt, Mercado, Lyle, Cobb, Quarry,Stander and they all stopped Earnie difference with Tyson is that he had 2-fisted Killer instinct and a more skilled finisher than Earnie

 

No you please go and watch some Holmes films, I seen him from his amateur days to all levels of his career. He had trouble with right hand punchers and avoided a lot of them even gave up a title to Page not to fight him.

Tyson had the finishing skill and 2-fisted power and more important, weird angled shots that would have always been a problem for Holmes.

The punchers that dropped Holmes Shavers and Snipes did not match Tyson in any of these areas and my guess is that guys like Coetzee, Page, and a more confident Weaver could have tested Larry in his era but none had the 2-fisted-combo power and finishing skills of Tyson.

Larry was mentally stronger but it would not be enough.

 

He was also knocked down by Mike Weaver.

 

It was a slip.

 

I have also watched Holmes from day 1 as well as Tyson. I see no evidence to suggest Larry had trouble with guys with a good rt. hand. The times you were mentioning that he did get tagged were all fights he was domminating and he got careless and was looking for the ref at one time or another to stop the fight. After the Holmes -Shavers and Snipes knockdowns which would have finnished anyone else off, Holmes was beating the **** outta both by rounds end. Larry had great defense. No way in hell prime for prime Tyson beats Holmes.

 

100% correct! Anyone who says that holmes was 'arguabley' past his prime against tyson, has clearly not seen Holmes in his heyday. Its nonsense to even suggest it

 

Likewise you could say that the guys who were able to take Tyson the distance werent anywhere in the same class as Holmes. Whose to say that larry couldnt employ these same tactics with a lot more skill

 

This mythical match-up is an interesting one.

However, I feel Tyson just has too much firepower and elusiveness for even a prime Larry. Prime Holmes was strong mentally but as a physical specimen (even in his prime) he was inferior to the Tyson that smashed him in '88. I personally have never thought that Holmes is as good as some people on this forum make out and I have seen plenty of his fights from his spell as champ.

Sure he had a long reign which was impressive but H2H Larry would face huge problems with Tyson's fast, heavy shots from both hands. Larry would be backing off, looking only to survive from the first round onwards. He would be able to do just that for a number of rounds but I'd take Tyson to notch up a TKO win inside 6 rounds as the most likely outcome of this fight.

If Larry ran and held all night like Smith or Tucker did, he might last the distance - but I think he'd drop a decision if he did as Tyson would outland him and be the aggressor. Larry's point about Mike being a "sharper" puncher than Shavers, Norton and the rest of his opposition is absolutely correct IMO.

I can understand why people say a prime Ali beats the Tyson of '86 or '88. Ali had greater hand speed, foot speed and elusiveness than Mike did so could win a decision over Tyson, more than likely. A prime Holmes simply doesn't have these qualities.

Larry's great qualities as a boxer - a great jab and a great chin - would be tested to the absolute limit by Tyson's head movement and footwork and his clinical finishing.

Tyson beats Holmes prime for prime.

 

Prime Tyson needed four rounds. The Holmes from six years or so earlier was a bit sharper and more elusive.


I'd lean towards prime Holmes by UD.


But there's a decent chance Tyson would still stop him.

 

This would be worth the price of ppv, even with a shitty undercard!

 

You're right. In his showcase fights, the Easton Assassin looked like a million bucks plus!

The primary reason Holmes went so many rounds without tasting the canvas is his excellent defensive skills, in addition to his vast superiority to his opponents. The vulnerability I mention is in connection with hard shots that actually landed on Larry. Whether to body or head, they evidently shook him up.

I think there is little controversy in stating Ali was vulnerable to the left hook. Why? Because, despite the fact that he went 61 fights, 550 rounds,
and met the canvas only thrice, Banks, Cooper and Frazier put him there via left hooks.

Same goes for Larry, IMO.

Snipes and Shavers did it with right hands. And, of course, and for the purposes of this particular matchup, Mike Tyson caught him --and kept him down-- with the same weapon.