Prime: Larry Holmes .Vs. Prime: Mike Tyson

I agree with you that the "mental card" with Tyson is used over and over which is wrong in some ways. Before Tyson bit off a piece of Holyfield's ear, he was a mentally sound fighter that carried his orders out of the corner to perfection. I remember Tony Tucker, James Smith, and Frank Bruno holding and clinching almost in excess during those fights. Tyson still did his job and landed his shots. I think people use the "mental card" with Tyson after Cus died because he was a train wreck waiting to happen. Women's groups weren't too happy with the Tyrell Biggs coments, and I can't fathom the embarassment he must have endured from Robin Givens in the interview with Barbara Walters.
I don't know how sound of mind he was in at that time, but all of those incidents must have had added some degree of destruction to his psyche.

 

Very tough call, as both were tremendous fighters in their respective primes. Ultimately though, in a 15 round fight, I think Larry wins a close but tough fight by decision.

 

Yes.Tyson would find it difficult to deal with Holmes' Jab as well as his footwork.

 

Tyson by close UD

 

I wonder why nobody beside Bill123 ever mentions the right hands and uppercuts of Holmes. Those punches would be the deciding factors in this fights not the jab. Tyson was trained ti slip jab and while Holmes jab was not an ordinary one and would trouble Tyson, he would be able to deal with it. What would get to Tyson would be the waiting right hand or uppercut after he slipped the jab.
This won´t be an easy fight for any of those two. I can see a win for both but I think Larry has a little more in his box than Tyson even though Tyson is the worst style match-up for him. Holmes by UD 114-113.

 

Good post, and I agree with the points you're making regarding the righthands and uppercuts, but to say Tyson wouldn't be troubled by the jab is a bit innaccurate. No matter how good Tysons defence and headmovement is he wouldn't be slipping every single jab (from the calibre of Holmes, Ali, Liston and Lewis) he would get hit with some. Thomas had a fine jab, though not quite at the level of those listed, but had some success. Tubbs even had a good first round in their fight and of course Douglas jabbed marvelously too (although Tyson was clearly underprepared). You can could on Larry scoring with it too.

It would be a close verdict and Tyson gives Larry some stylistic questions, for sure. I'd tip him to answer them, though and come through. :good

 

:good

 

Fair enough pal, I missed that point as I was scanreading, however I think the jab would remain a big key in the fight. As you say though other element of Larry's arsenal would come into play too. A peak Tyson gives a very stern test to any heavyweight to ever exist, though so there would be moments where Holmes would have to brave the eye of the storm, but he had massive fighting heart and steely mentality (something important to have against Tyson) which I believe would see him through in a great fight.

 

Well, I think too that his jab will be a key weapon in this fight for Holmes but in another way than you think. Larry is a smart fighter and I assume he would throw the jab at times in a way that Tyson will slip it just to land his uppercut when Mike comes in. This would jeopardize Tyson, he would never know when he should the jab or when it´s better not to.

 

Yeah, of course despite Holmes' durability and good stamina it'd be wrong for him to engage in the trenches with Tyson- of course he's got the power to gain Mike's respect, but the only fighters I can think of who could beat Tyson in an all-out slugfest are Liston and Lewis, even then it's dicey. What I think Holmes should (probably would) do are to box n' use plenty of lateral movement, keep the jab pumping consistently and look to catch Tyson coming in with hooks and uppercuts, as Loewe pointed out, look for opportunities to counter with the right hand over the top if Tyson slips some jabs.


When Tyson gets inside clich, tie him up, break his foward momentum and when the ref breaks same again. Repeat as often as possible. Whilst I do think Larry could hold his own in exchanges he won't want these to be a regular occurance suring the fight.

 

I like Holmes. But it is close because of Tyson's power and finishing.

I appreciate Holmes' willingness to brawl could be his undoing and he would have rounds where he was in trouble. But I think he will eventually exploit Tyson's mental fragility (BTW which was ALWAYS there).

As the fight wears on Tyson would, as always, begin to unravel. That's the key here. Close but Holmes wins this one more times than he loses.

 

The BIG key here is for Holmes to get thru the first two or three rounds. Tyson slows a bit then and becomes a little more predictable and managable, especially for an ATG like Holmes. Considering he got thru them when he was vastly past it i am backing him to do it peak. I see him fighting safety first as he did vs Shavers and when the much quicker Tyson gets close i see Holmes clinching, or throwing the uppercut then clinching. I see Tyson winning most of the first 4 or so with Holmes slowly imposing himself and taking a competitive but clearcut decision.

The X factors to my choice are Tyson catching Holmes big early or Holmes starting to land flush late in the fight on a Tyson that could have become very frustrated.

 

Thats's the whole fight right there...

 

I have always thought that Holmes was one of those fighters that held onto many of his gifts in his later years. That is obvious, I know. What I mean is that I don't think that Holmes had lost a lot at the time he faced Tyson. Holmes had lost enough for Tyson to get him out in 4, but Holmes had enough left to give an idea how this fight would look had he been younger.

If you watch Holmes vs. Tyson, you'll see Larry is not performing bad. Larry is giving a good account for himself, he was just getting blasted. I believe you see elements of what Douglas would later use to defeat an uninterested Tyson in Tokyo. If Larry had been just a bit younger, I think he would have been strong and fast enough to make it past the 6th round with Tyson. Tyson only has 4 stoppages his entire career past the 6th round, and 3 of those came in the 7th.

If Larry were able to get Tyson past round 6, the fight would be completely his at that point. By round 10, Tyson would have reverted to just going through the motions. Holmes would tear into him like "Honey" Roy Palmer, and force the stoppage.

It won't matter if it's scheduled for 12 or 15. Holmes tko 10

 

Sorry but i have to strenuously disagree on this one. Holmes had lot a massive amount, but his class and particular skillset allowed him to impress many and perform well even after the Tyson fight. Hardcore Holmes observers will see him for exactly what he was however.

Holmes peak would have been 78-80/81 maybe. Even vs Cooney he was starting to slide, quite quickly around 83 on. By the time Holmes was beaten by Spinks he was a mere shell of his former self. He was woeful in the first Spinks fight, utterly woeful. He was faded and underdone and overconfident. He came back much better in the rematch and should have won, but he was still ohhhhhhh so slow and ponderous as to what he had once been. His speed and sharpness were nothing but a memory. Spinks, as awkward as he was, would have been shattered by the Holmes of the late 70's, shattered.

Given the Tyson fight was two years later and he had no warmup tells us all we need to know. The man was in slow motion. He could still come back and beat a Mercer, but this success shouldn't lead us to thinking he was anything to associate with the warrior that was peak Larry. It's just a tribute to how great he formerly was that he could still come out and put a Mercer in his place.