Prime Larry Holmes vs the following opposition

I am not even much of a Holmes fan and I know that he could beat most of those guys on the same night.

Only Liston gives him trouble because of the 85 inch rich and power, but even he gets comfortably outpointed, imo. Patterson is stopped by a couple of good right hands.

Williams in a decent fight because of his power but he is comfortably outpointed or stopped late.

The rest...really?

 

These are all of prime Muhammad Ali's title defense opponents from 1965-1967 with the exeption of Doug Jones who went on to lose to Ernie Terrell in June 1966 in a WBA title fight. Larry Holmes stops Doug in round 6, then cuts up Henry Cooper, stops him in round 6, like Ali did in 1966. I say that Larry stops Sonny in round 10 after out boxing him. Larry stops Floyd in the 8th round, Floyd has trouble getting past Larry's left jab, Larry would not carry him to torture him. Larry goes the distance with the Washerwoman, George Chuvalo, who has an iron chin. Holmes kayoes Brian London in round 1. Larry has to wear down Karl Mildenberger, he like Ali, would have trouble with Karl's southpaw stance, but stops Mildenberger in round 13. Holmes stops a bullet riddled Cleveland Williams in round 2. Larry then goes the distance with Ernie Terrell in a yawner of a bout, Holmes wins this unanimously., there is no What's My Name? in this one. Zora Folley, who has a decision win over top contender Oscar Bonavena, out hustles Larry until round 8, when Holmes lowers the boom with his right hand.

 

Williams would absolutely NOT be a decent fight at that stage in his career.

 

Yeah, I didn't look at the date. I guess it is post shooting.

 

Holmes beats them all except maybe Liston

Liston wasn't old in 1964. Yes, he may have been older than his stated birthday. But IMO Liston was still close to his prime in 1964. If Ali is not on the scene, Liston reigns as champion till 1968/69

I am not sure if Larry can do what Ali did. Ali frustrated Liston with his incredible footspeed. Can Holmes dance away from Liston as quickly as Ali? No. Holmes had fast feet but did not have lightning fast feet like Ali. I cannot see Holmes frustrating Liston to that extent because Holmes was not a speed demon like Ai was.

Ali also had faster hands than Holmes. Again, look at footage of prime Ali vs prime Holmes. Ali's hand speed and foot speed are one level above Holmes.

Ali was vulnerable somewhat to a left hook. Holmes was somewhat vulnerable to a right hand. Since Larry cannot dance as fast as Ali, it is not inconceivable that Liston could land some hard right hands on Holmes. Holmes did not handle right hands as well as Muhammad did.

IMO a Holmes-Liston 1964 fight is a pick em fight with Larry being a slight favourite. Larry does not possess Muhammad's speed nor his ability to handle right hands. If Liston lands a big right aka Shavers, he could finish Holmes. He wouldn't get wild like Shavers did.

Conclusion: Holmes beats all of them handily except maybe Liston.

 

I agree a prime Williams would make it a decent fight but certainly not after being shot. As Ali himself said "Their isn't much left."

 

Liston was at the youngest 34 most likely much older, had fought 3 rounds in the last 3 rounds, and went into the bout with a known shoulder injury. I think it's safe to say he wasn't in his prime.

 

Good post. For me Liston took Clay lightly in the first fight and did not train how he should have. If Holmes fought that version i'd make him a narrow favorite but if Liston trained accordingly to the threat that "prime" Holmes would present i'd narrowly favor Sonny.

 

Maybe. But i don't see anyone else beating Liston until a young Frazier in 1968/69.

I am not sure if i buy the shoulder thing. Liston was swinging at air vs Ali. Liston was throwing extremely powerful shots vs Ali that Ali made him miss. I am sure that would missing such hard punches would hurt anyone's shoulders.

IMO the Liston of 1964 beats a lot of great heavyweights. He only fought a few rounds because Patterson was a sitting duck for him. I am sure Liston could have fought 15 rounds vs anyone else with ease. Only Ali's outrageous speed was too much for him.

 

Thanks. I fully agree.

I agree that Liston did not take him seriously. However, i think Sonny realized that Ali's speed was too much for him. Ali was just outrageously quick. Larry couldn't make Sonny miss as much. I agree with you though.

 

Yes Holmes wasn't first carer Ali - his speed of both hand and foot was out of this world for a Heavyweight. Larry would certainly have to work harder.

 

This content is protected

I like Larry and rank him in my all time top 5 hw's. But Jesus, just look at Ali's speed. Its unreal. A 210-220 lb man should not be allowed to move that fast nor throw punches with that kind of hand speed. Just unreal. No wonder Liston couldn't handle it.

 

It's crazy. That's why he was "The Greatest". Truly unique.