How would 1964 have replayed if Liston had been five years younger, had taken the fight seriously and had trained for it?
5 years from '64 then we're talking about a 1959 Sonny Liston. Here he was at his peak. Muhammad Ali, I mean Cassius Clay, was a tad green in '64 and really came into his element abut 2-3 years later. He was very inimidated against Liston and was reluctant to engage until he realised just how much Sonny had deteriorated and had undertained. Seeing the way Doug Jones and Henry Cooper nailed him only several months before this fight - (Jones fighting him to a VERY close decision) - I find it had NOT to pick the vastly experiened Liston over the very green Cassius Clay.
Going by Sonny's proper birth date (March 1927), he was 36 years and 11 months in February 1964. I'd say, lets take 7 years off the 1964 Sonny, making him just shy of 30. The long left jab would be the 'neutralizer', as it would be pounded into the fleeing Cassius Clay. A one-sided 15-Round Decision.
Ahh, now Ali is at his best here. He's not as technical and his ring IQ isn't as amazing as it would be in the early to mid 70's however all the grace, speed and natural talent remains, he's also more cofident, stronger and coming into his element. After great performances over a washed up Cleveland Williams, a rematch with Cooper, Terrell, Folley, Chuvalo and Patterson I'm pretty sure he's wise enough to outbox Liston to a decision. However this would have been his tougest fight until Frazier in '71 - maybe more so. Ali on points in a close fight
People don't realize Ali came into his own in 1964...far better than the 1962-63 ali. 1964 Cassius Clay was more like the 65-66 Ali
Suzie Q, That is a little bit of a stretch, as Cassius Clay only had 'one' fight in 1964 (February). And that, against a nearly 37 year-old , out-of-shape, under-trained, damaged shoulder, and boozed out fighter, who only had 6-minutes of ring time in 27-months. Not to take into consideration, that Sonny was 'in-the-tank' for that fight.
I agree with the first part of your post. The second part doesn't make sense, though. Ali's greenness is a factor often overlooked because Liston caved so pathetically. I think a more experienced Ali with more confidence in his tools and physical superiority would've spanked Liston even more. Whether it be the Liston from 1959 or 64. Honestly, I think you could argue Ali's inexperience should have been more of a factor than Liston's age or inactivity. He looked damn fine blasting out Patterson twice.
Ali takes a very clear decision. Liston would always be foxed by Ali,prime for prime. 1959 Liston v 1964 Clay. Liston by close points verdict.
Well we've seen this fight already. Barring the shoulder injury clay decisively outpoints liston in a competitive fight. I'd say 10-5. Liston just isn't in the same class. I find it hilarious that pepe wants to put the 57 liston in with the 64 clay who exactly had liston beaten by then to warrant such a fight?
