Prime Liston vs. Prime Tyson

A Tyson KO is possible here, of course.

But "against guys like Patterson" won't do, in fact it's counter productive. No, Liston hasn't beaten a fighter on the inside who is as good as Tyson. Tyson, of course, never fought anyone anything like as good as Liston in his prime. And when he was passed prime, he lost to everyone in that class.

"Against guys like Patterson" isn't helpful, because it seeks to dismiss that which is clearly true on film - Liston's superior inside boxing - without explaining how and why this would come about. You haven't disputed that Liston is better at distance, and you haven't disputed that he wouldn't find it so difficult to get inside - i'm assuming that you are not disputing these things.

So explain how the inferior "looking" fighter will win the inside battle - for a reason besides Liston "only" beating ATG fighters like Patterson there.

 

Tyson quit more often than Liston. Did it with less dignity too. And one of them was against ****ing Danny Williams.

 

Are you basically saying that no legal techniques are valid against Tyson, that he is invulnerable to all legal techniques because he has studied films? That you must cheat to break his rythym?

Liston is certainly stronger, Tyson is faster. Inside, faster matters only a little and stronger is the single most important factor.

 

Neither one of them quit in their prime.

 

Fair enough, although that might be exactly what it comes down to. Having said that, the more I think about it the more I think Liston is a pretty heavy favourite if he can get inside. And I think he can get inside.

 

That's pretty ludicrous actually. That's the same sort of logic that the haters employ along these lines: Tyson lost to every ATG he ever faced so he would lose to every one of them. Just because two fighters beat Tyson by bending the rules (nothing like what we've seen Tyson do of course) doesn't mean that those criteria have to be fulfilled every time he loses a fantasy match up.

Was he? Because i've never seen him do this...ever. Who has he outmanuevered to the inside (his worst distance, clearly, in my view) before taking them down? Almost every Tyson KO you see is at mid-range....

Tyson's short right is about half as good on the inside as it is at mid-range - this is not a secret. It's because Tyson uses momentum to generate velocity, but i've often wondered if his "natural" (And extraordinary) feel for angles at mid-range just flat out did not exsist at close range. Liston's jaw is every bit as good as Tyson's and I would actually pick him to survive a mid-range right hand, so certainly a close range right hand.

Liston doesn't actually have to "drop his hands" from a technical standpoint when working on the inside, but the idea that as soon as he does he will be KO'd is pretty juvenile. Do you think that Bonecrusher Smith is a better fighter than Liston? He certainly isn't as strong. Tyson wouldn't just be beaten on the inside by Liston, he'd be manhandled.