(PRIME) Luiz Ortiz vs. (PRIME) Zhilei Zhang

He was but...

1. Joyce had a very competitive 12 round fight with Jennings in Britain 5 months later, which many thought was a draw or a Jennings win

2. Joyce was 33 with 11 years of boxing experience, including an Olympic silver medal, WSB fights against Hrgovic and Usyk and lots of sparring with Joshua and Fury

3. Like Zhang, Ortiz was an aged counter-punching southpaw banger with vast experience and much faster hands than feet. Abel Sanchez knew that spelled disaster but apparently Joyce's current team didn't think so, for whatever reason

 

Hearn knew Ortiz was too dangerous for AJ, so signed him and gave Allen peanuts to fight him, knowing Dave would get destroyed, all while pretending to care about Dave.

 

50/50.

 

I don't know if Joyce didn't want the fight but his trainer didn't want it, which looks very prescient now. Perhaps they would have fought Ortiz at 41+, post-Wilder 2 but who knows: "give it two or three fights" is a cliché in boxing. It may well mean: "We'll probably get beaten now, there's a serious amount of work we need to do to stand a good chance, plus we'd like him to slow down".

 

People thought Jennings beat Joyce? That’s news to me.

Pro boxing is not the same as amateur boxing though. Ortiz had a good 20 or so pro fights on him- although I don’t like it there’s always an element of building someone up at the beginning of their pro career

 

https://eyeonthering.com/boxing/joe-joyce-vs-bryant-jennings

38% disputed at the time on Eyeonthering. The point deduction against Jennings seemed harsh/contrived, perhaps to give Joyce a win or UD in a fight that the ref thought could plausibly end 6-6.

I'm not saying that team Joyce were wrong to sidestep the post-Wilder 1 40+ Ortiz, whether due to Joyce's inexperience or Ortiz's style and attributes but it has implications for how good Ortiz was at 36 when he outboxed Jennings 4-2 and stopped him in 7 rounds, or undefeated 30 fights in at 38 when he fought Wilder the fight time.

 

whos mentioned chisora not me also ruiz ortiz hard rounds youv got to be kidding me ortiz won every one of them rounds he didnt get put down in and believe you me they were not hard rounds they were bloody boring and slow didnt know ortiz had devoted followers like you spinning these funny stories lol

 

2017 Anthony Joshua vs 2017 Luis Ortiz

Joshua: 6’5.5, 82 inch reach, 250 lbs, 28 years old, boxing since age 18, competing as an amateur for 45 months, controversially won the 2012 Olympics in London at SHW, 19-0 (19 inside the distance, 5 in the first round), 4 years as a pro, exclusively fought in Britain and mainly in London, lost 7 rounds, knocked down once as a pro, orthodox

Ortiz: 6’2.5, 78 inch reach, 240 lbs, 38 years old, boxing since age 10, first recorded amateur bout in 1998, on the Cuban national team from 2002-2008 (training with Cuban amateur greats F. Savon and Solis), won the 2005 Pan American Games in Brazil at HW, 29-0 (27/29 inside the distance, 8 in the first round), 8 years as a pro, fought in 8 nations and never at home, lost 3 rounds, never knocked down as a pro, southpaw

Joshua’s performances against Cubans (E. Savon), southpaws (Nistor, Cammarelle, Usyk) and front foot counter punchers (Ruiz) haven’t been good, which strongly suggests that Ortiz would have been a bad stylistic matchup for him. Hence Matchroom signed Ortiz in 2016 in order to keep him away from Joshua.

 

Ortiz bc he’d never struggle with Jerry Forrest.

 

I'd like to see the Zhang vs Joyce 2 loser fight Ortiz. Ortiz isn't prime at all, but he did look good his last time out. They're both poor matchups for Ortiz stylistically since his chin is damaged goods, but old man vs old man matchups are in style. I've also wanted to see Pulev vs Ortiz for years.

 

Zhang barely escaped with his life against Jerry Forrest even after bouncing him up and down on the canvas early. He would've been in hell for the first few rounds against Ortiz...............then again Ortiz ain't really a well of stamina either so I dunno. Ortiz has the ability to do more in the ring though, I ain't been impressed by Zhang. Even the win over Joyce wasn't really "impressive", it was more of Joyce being an idiot thinking he can walk through anything like he was really the juggernaut.

I say Ortiz outlasts him and wins tko9, then Ortiz has a heart attack in the corner

 

Ortiz would stop Zhang

 

zhang was ill in that fight

 

Zhang by BRUTAL KO

 

Yeah. Obviously there are always excuses in boxing but the Hrgovic fight confirmed to me that Zhang was sick vs Forrest. Zhang wasn't pushing an early pace against Forrest either as Wlad was vs Brewster 1 for example, so there was no reason why he should have gassed there. If you're dead after 4 rounds with Forrest you're not going 12 with a vastly superior Hrgovic 18 months later at 39, let alone putting in an effort worthy of winning against Hrgovic over 12, let alone stopping Joyce 8 months after that.

In terms of determination and courage I think Zhang is as tough as they come. Going 10 rounds with Forrest and getting a draw shouldn't have been possible considering his post-round 4 collapse, it required herculean strength of will to stay upright. To then go into the Hrgovic and Joyce fights as a 7/1 underdog, lose a controversial decision and his unbeaten record to Hrgovic after putting him down for the first time in his career and then dominate Joyce over 6 rounds, it's very impressive.