(PRIME) Luiz Ortiz vs. (PRIME) Zhilei Zhang

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https://www.express.co.uk/sport/box...er-Anthony-Joshua-Eddie-Hearn-Jay-Jimenez/amp

Yeah Hearn and Joshua were obviously ducking Ortiz by only offering him millions when he had just earned $500k for the first wilder fight.

 

you know your boxing mate also can i ask was zhang anaemic he said something about that i think he wasnt well and folk on the forum are still posting about him drawing with forrest are they ignorant or stupid or what

 

Ortiz has no chin. He gets dropped by jabs. The first straight left Zhang lands on his big square head would put him down.

 

the are asking about prime ortiz his chin was ok then better than now lol he gets put down by anything now

 

Based on what? He never fought anyone who tested it.

 

lol

 

I'd say Ortiz prime was almost KOing Wilder.

Zhang KO'd Joyce.

 

Yep, his resume is appalling for a fighter who was at one time seen as the biggest threat to the title holders. His best win in his prime was who? Jennings who wasn't a puncher. Fact is the first genuine puncher he faced was Wilder and we saw what happened there.

Other than that Allen had him rattled but Allen's not even gate keeper level. So we don't know how good his chin was at all. Maybe it's always been shaky he never proved he could take a good shot.

Zhang looked chinny vs Forrest but he was anaemic and suffered kidney failure in that fight so had a slew of health issues. He showed vs Hrgovic he could take flush right hands from a good puncher and not look fazed.

Between the two, Zhang is bigger, longer, far better amateur career, better single win as a pro having beaten Joyce who beat Ortiz's best win in Jennings. Zhang's basically a bigger, better version of Ortiz, so right now Zhang in my opinion has to be favoured.

 

No one is 100% in a fight ever

 

Not an Ortiz follower but are you reading your own words?

Ortiz was dropped like 4 times in that fight and won the other rounds against a guy capable of dropping him 4 times. Maybe you don't qualify that as "hard," but for a guy in the twighlight of a long career who has 2 knockouts by the hardest puncher in the division on his rear view, it probably ain't easy

I don't think Ortiz is some all time great but I don't think Zhang is either. Ortiz came as close to stopping wilder as bert cooper did holyfield. He has outboxed just about everyone he's ever fought, and his losses have all required his opponent to drop him several times or stop him. His losses are to former title holders who are held in varying esteem around here, but I find it totally plausible that he could beat Zhang.

 

I think Ortiz fans (who inexplicably still exist) look at Ortiz's stocky physique and mentally attribute that to a guy who can take a great shot, even though the only puncher he faced KOed him twice. Maybe he could take a great shot in his prime, but it's his own fault that we're left to speculate because his resume is so thin and anaemic. Logic dictates that he could probably take a marginally better shot back in circa 2016/17 but I see no evidence to attribute great punch-taking abilities to a man who never put himself in a position to test that quality.

I agree Zhang proved a lot more in his career already than Ortiz did, and on paper should be considered the better fighter. He's also got quicker hands and more sneaky timing than Ortiz, who's always been kind of plodding and one-gear, as well as demonstrating superior power. The one point I'll give in Ortiz's favour is his consistency. He's never had the types of up and down performances as Zhang has where he can look like garbage one fight (Juan Goode, Jerry Forrest) and then like a killer the next (Hrgovic, Joyce).

But if we're taking the best versions of each then Zhang is the winner here.

 

Ill is an understatemenr

 

"man who never put himself in a position to test that quality."

Rather than delving in to subjective debates about who was responsible for x fight not being made, Povetkin's promoter admitted to ducking Ortiz, Joyce's trainer admitted to ducking him, Chisora admitted that he has zero interest in fighting Ortiz because he's "a nightmare" and "a hard night's work", Takam pulled out of the Ortiz fight to take on Duhaupas instead, Fury said he'd only be interested in fighting Ortiz if Ortiz beat Wilder and Ruiz tried to fight Spong in Mexico rather than a 43 year old Ortiz with 2 KO defeats coming off the Martin fight. All of these are easily verifiable facts that require no speculation.

If 7/1 underdog Zhang had been regarded as nearly as dangerous as Ortiz was then, Zhang's best win would still be his 8-2 over Rudenko because Joyce would not have been put in with him (unless they were trying to get Joyce to take a lot of damage or lose).

"he could probably take a marginally better shot back in circa 2016/17"

Andy Ruiz couldn't get a 43 year old, 2 KO defeats Ortiz out of there over 12 rounds in a very close fight and Ortiz got to the 10th in a very competitive fight with Wilder 7 fights and 4.5 years prior, prior to that he'd never been dropped in 30 fights as a pro (as Zhang was by Juan Goode; the level of opponent Ortiz was frequently fighting early on) or shown punch resistance issues in the amateurs. He certainly didn't have a bad chin 5+ years ago.

 

Tough 1. Giving the edge to Ortiz.

 

Zhang by KO.

Ortiz is vastly overrated and is most likely harboring a glass chin. He might do well for the first 3 or 4 rounds but he'd eventually get clipped. Zhang has fought Hrovic and Joyce, two known punchers. And he arguably beat Hrovic. There is nothing to suggest from what I've seen of Ortiz that he could take Zhang's power or that he is any better than him.