How would prime Marciano have done -- in 10 and 6 round fights -- against the Miske who fought tough 10 and 6 rounders against Dempsey in 1918? http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Lodge/6525/BMiske-Geo.htm http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Lodge/6525/Article-BillyMiske.htm
I never saw Miske on film. If Miske is as good as say LaStarza was, I tend to believe he would probably defeat Marciano in six round match. Many feel LaStarza defeated Marciano in the first fight. The second fight is on film. I did a round by round a while back, and Roland is ahead in the first five rounds. I would lean toward Marciano in a 10 round match though, especially if it is in a smaller ring. Quick review of Marciano vs LAstarza II: I watched Marciano vs LaStarza II a few days ago with fresh eyes. >>>If you have not seen the fight, it is a tale of two matches. Marciano was a bit like a passage of Charles Dickens. It was the best of times; it was the worst of times. Lastarza, who over trained and a few pounds under his normal weight was actually ahead about 4-2 after six rounds. He was making Rocky miss,and he countered Rocky flush. Rocky seemed to lack the foot speed / dynamic change of pace to catch up to and corner Lastarza. LaStarza was competent boxer, but he was not " that " fast nor did he have a solid enough punch to worry Marciano. The tides began to turn after Rocky landed some hard shots after the break on fouls. One of them was a flush hook to the jaw after a break. Rocky also landed a mean low blow, which cost him a point. The foul shots Marciano landed seemed to be his best of the night up to round 6. Rocky was flirting with a DQ, but managed to cut Lastarza, then Lastarza’s legs suddenly died out on him and it was all Marciano from round 7 to the finish in round 11. The finish was classic Marciano. Lastarza was knocked down through the ropes. He got up, but was clearly done for. I suppose Rocky deserves credit again for staging a come back, but honestly I just can’t see other all time greats looking like this vs LaStarza.
I think you're making too much of this. Louis was arguably ahead 4-2 after six rounds with Marciano, Foley was 4-2 ahead after 6 rounds with Ali, Bruno was 4-2 ahead after 6 rounds with Lewis, etc etc. What matters is that they all stopped their opponents, rendering the scorecards useless. And what are we talking about here anyway, a 1 round margin? Sometimes one can be presented with an akward style or one that gives you trouble, credit to those who figure it out and come with a knockout anyway.
Folley ahead of Ali 4-2? I don't know about that. I thought Folley won round one, then Ali pretty much took over after that. I'll have to see it again. Does anyone else think Folley was up 4-2 on Ali before the stoppage? If you were to ask me to rate Bruno, Folley and LaStatza, Lastarza is last. In additon, Ali and Lewis did not hit on the break or low blow at the turning of the tides, while Marciano did.
Lastarza overtrained gimme a break. there is no evidence to support that arguement. i have read 10 newspaper articles on the fight and not one claimed lastarza overtrained. he was 25 years old showed up 184lb only about 2-3lb less than his average weight and was fighting for the biggest prize in pro sports. He was mentally and physically at his peak. amazing how even the young opponents marciano faces, you attempt to make them seem like they were past there prime too. I have read that marciano carried lastarza, that he could have dumped him in 5 or 6 but held him up so he could give roland a prolong bad beating for calling him punch drunk prefight.
by some accounts rocky could have knocked him out in 5-6 rounds but held back so he could give roland a bad beating for calling him punch drunk. As for staging a comeback, rocky was well ahesd on the scorecard at the time of the stoppage.
I did not say LaStarza was past his prime, I said Charles was. LaStarza says he over trained, and ESPN Classic who aired the repaly also says this. Marciano carried Lastarza? No way.
ESPN classic HAHAHAH thats ur source? a voice announcer? name me one man who was live at the fight who said lastarza was overtrained?
theres more and better sources that claim marciano carried lastarza than sources that claim lastarza overtrained.
Espn classic or big fights seem to get there facts wrong sometimes. Jack Dempsey vs Tunney and Carp, they just mix and match the rounds lol. Round 2 is round 1(Dempsey Carp) Or round 4 is round ten(Dempsey Tunney) Or worse the Johnson Jeff fight when it says round 12 is round 13. Or Johnson Willard, Round 1 is round 18. These are the mistakes that comes to mind right there.
Billy Miske lost twice to both Harry Greb and Kid Norfolk between 1917 and 1919. I think it beyond a stretch, without film, to judge him a likely winner over Marciano in ten. What about six? Well, I wouldn't assume that the pace Marciano fought at for a 15 round fight is the pace he would have fought at for a six round fight. Obviously, the shorter the fight, the greater the chance for a fluky result, but I like Marciano.
As has been pointed out, LaStarza is the obvious comparison here with regards to Miske. LaStarza being ahead through six in a 15-round fight is far from a demonstration that he would have won in a six-round fight. Even Rocky wouldn't pace himself the same way in a 15-rounder as a six-rounder. However, I do believe that a guy like LaStarza or Miske who had the right combination of durability, defensive skill and movement would have a very legitimate chance at outpointing Marciano over six, a limit within which he might not be able to condense his wearing-down process effectively enough to work the magic on them. Over 10, I'm fairly confident a peak Marciano would defeat either man.
