Prime Mayweather vs Hagler of the SRL fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by MoneyMay1, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    NoNeck,

    This is a good debate.

    Okay. But it’s not just the size which would have been a factor. It’s also everything else that would have come into play:

    Things such as:

    Marvin’s skill set
    Marvin’s strength and power
    Marvin’s style

    The clash of styles

    Although Floyd fought guys of a similar size, he simply never encountered the kind of fighter that Marvin was.

    If we use your reasoning, we could say that Manny Pacquiao could also have beaten Marvin, based on the fact that he easily beat Oscar and Marg who were bigger than what Marvin was.

    You have to realise that that’s a very simplistic way of looking at things.

    Beating Oscar and Canelo, wouldn’t have prepared Floyd to have fought an ATG MW, who was also a southpaw, and who would more than likely have really pressured him.

    Okay. But once again, there’s still no mention of a breakdown. You still haven’t told us how you think that Floyd would have won.

    You still haven’t accounted for the stylistic match up.

    No thought has been given to what strategy Floyd could realistically have used.

    No thought has been given to how confident and offensive that Floyd would realistically have been, based upon his style and his characteristics.

    You should already know by now that styles make fights.

    Canelo is levels above Marcos Maidana. Yet Floyd struggled with Maidana after he’d breezed by Canelo.

    If you think that Floyd was a better fighter than Ray Leonard, then that’s cool. But that does not mean that Floyd could beat the guys who Ray beat.

    This is not a H2H comparison.

    You’re not ranking the fighters.

    You are looking/should be looking solely from Floyd’s perspective, of how you think he realistically could have beaten Marvin.

    It’s that simple.

    Floyd was levels above Iran Barkley on a P4P basis. But it doesn’t mean that he could have beaten Thomas Hearns like how Barkley did.

    Saying that Floyd would probably have beaten Marvin, based upon you believing that Floyd was better overall than a guy who beat him, is a very weak argument.

    It doesn’t matter if you rate Floyd higher than Ray.

    The only thing that’s relevant is how Floyd personally would have matched up with Marvin stylistically.

    He retired in 1987.

    Yes, he’d slowed down a little. But just a year earlier, he’d been to war with John Mugabi.

    He was methodical?

    How?

    He could fight orthodox and southpaw, and he could box and fight.

    He fought Mugabi, but boxed Ray.

    He showed variation in stances and strategy.

    What’s a Mayweather style fight at that weight?

    A cautious boxing match?

    What would he have done if Marvin had gone after him?

    If Marvin had turned it into a fight, how could Floyd have kept him off of him?

    Again, look also at the psychological aspect of things.

    How confident and offensive minded would Floyd have been against an ATG MW, who was also a southpaw, and who was also bigger, stronger and more powerful, with a bigger reach?

    A typical Mayweather fight means nothing here, as Marvin wouldn’t have been a typical opponent.

    Floyd never saw a Marvin Hagler his entire career.


    I’ll debate you all night.

    I’m really enjoying it. But your opinions aren’t based on anything substantial.

    You’re debating more on emotion rather than on logic.
     
    scandcb likes this.
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why?

    He used to weigh-in well under the limit, back in the days of same day weigh-ins.
     
  3. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I still don't see this as a sign of struggling against an opponent of Duran's caliber, after 15 rounds.

    Marvin disposed of Minter, Sibson and Obel in relatively short order - and none of those guys were as clever as Duran.


    The official scoring was off-kilter and doesn't reflect how the bout actually played out, in my opinion (and in the opinion of many others). Whenever Hagler applied the pressure, he took control.

    As mentioned previously, Hagler's last two, superb rounds to finish the bout, should put any doubts about who was calling the shots in there, well and truly to bed.


    Vito Antuofermo says hello.


    The fight wasn't a classic, but I do think Hagler's cautionary approach is overly criticized, while Duran's guile is overlooked.

    That said, I don't think anyone, who appreciates pure boxing skills, meted out by practitioners at that level, should consider Hagler's performance as "sub par".


    Fair enough. But, for mine, Mayweather was run close by much less complete fighters than Hagler (even the creaking, one step away from retirement version) and I think it's too steep a hill for FMJ to climb.
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You’re trying to convince yourself of something that isn’t logical.

    Ray hit Marvin with rapid fire combinations that banked the rounds and deterred Marvin from coming forward aggressively.

    Again, you still haven’t told us exactly how you think that Floyd would have won.

    Floyd would have needed to have deterred Marvin from pressing him.

    He’d have needed to have been offensive minded in order to have won the majority of the rounds.

    His economy based style and his pot spotting wouldn’t have worked on Marvin.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What is this nonsense?

    What was dangerous about him?

    Floyd would have had zero answer had Marvin had pressured him.

    You guys need to stick to the PS4.

    Floyd barely beat Maidana, just 8 months after he’d breezed past Canelo.

    Your posts are so weak.
     
  6. CleneloAnavarez

    CleneloAnavarez Active Member banned Full Member

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    If Hagler tries to box Mayweather then he would lose. The brawler would do way better.
     
    Loudon likes this.
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Marvin wasn’t lifeless and unmotivated. He just went with the wrong tactics.

    He didn’t fight southpaw from the start and he didn’t press Ray enough.

    What makes you think that he’d have fought Floyd in the same manner?


    Okay, you’d have given Floyd a real chance. That’s cool. But by doing what?

    How would he have beaten him?

    How confident would he have been?

    How offensive minded would he have been?


    It’s okay dismissing what Ray did, but in real time, Floyd struggled with Marcos Maidana and refused to fight Canelo at 154 pounds.

    You can’t just assume that that same cautious guy would have fought an ATG MW with confidence.

    You can’t just assume that he could have replicated what Ray did, when he didn’t possess the same attributes as what Ray did.
     
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  8. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That wasn't a very good version of Hagler. Mayweather would probably enjoy a fair speed advantage too.

    That said: Stylistically and physically, I think FMJ is in trouble here.

    Hagler had a good workrate and was a smart boxer. Leonard fought him superficially in some ways like Mayweather, yes, but Leonard would take risks and flurry and try to steal rounds on workrate. Floyd is a potshotter; I don't think he has the workrate to get a decision over Hagler and he definitely doesn't have the physicality. Hagler would walk through his punches to get to him, whereas Leonard could actually generate some pop if he had to. I think that the moment Hagler realises Floyd has little for him, that he's going to turn up the heat and make the damage stick.
     
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  9. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The best post in this thread so far
     
  10. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Floyd is unbeatable in every fantasy match-up
     
  11. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    I’m thinking about watching Lomachenko’s dad fight tomorrow.
     
  12. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's fine. Mayweather would've beaten prime Tyson and Roy Jones
     
  13. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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  14. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    Mayweather is such a slick fighter. I could see him beating a prime Hagler. Hagler never dealt with someone as slick as Floyd. Would I be shocked if Floyd befuddles him? Nope. Floyd is slicker than Leonard.
     
    Mark Dunham likes this.
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How slick was Floyd above WW?

    How confident would he have been in fighting Hagler, when he wouldn’t fight a prime Manny or Canelo at 154?

    How offensive would he have been against Hagler?

    Who did he ever fight who possessed Hagler’s size and attributes?

    How would Floyd have deterred Hagler from pressing him?

    How would Floyd have stopped Hagler from pressing him?


    All of those questions are relevant.


    The guy was a safety first fighter.

    A careful matchmaker.

    He only fought at JMW 3 times in his entire career.

    He barely coped with a faded Oscar and a B level and crude Maidana.

    He didn’t possess the attributes that Leonard had.
     
    BCS8 likes this.