Prime Mike Tyson vs. Jess Willard...Does Tyson take Willard out in 1?

Surely you don't consider Willard a 'world class opponent' ?

 

In terms of actual ability I'm not certain Willard is even on the level of Bruce Seldon. And Tyson hits harder than Dempsey and does everything better than him offensively.

 

Those reports are from the Ring. Don't think Ring were prone to tall tales in those days..who knows, fact is he was a bloody mess.

 

With Tyson basically being a better, quicker and harder punching version of Dempsey I can't imagine him failing to better Jack. Especially being allowed to stand above Willard and load up on his punches against a defenceless rusty old man.

 

It's very doubtful.

Part of what made this Dempsey's signature victory was the fact he obliterated a man known for his tremendous endurance - not just that he looked good.

People will continue to ridicule Big Jess after sampling that grainy film, but to consider how he even carried on after that first round is startling. Let's not forget rounds 2 & 3 where Dempsey is lamping him with incredible combinations; sweeping hooks, crushing body blows and short uppercuts in close.

Tyson did not have Dempsey's variety; the muscular terror required a private moment to compose his attacks, a little squeeze of the gloves, a subtle side-step. Dempsey could make something out of nothing. Mike would find Willard's presence more troublesome and ultimately take longer to bring the big man down.

 

good point Burt, Tyson was 5"10 but the 6"4 Bone crusher (boneClucher) Smith held on to last and Mith"BlooD"Green did the same and 6"6 Tony Tucker were able to hold and hug....Dempsey made it harder to clutch because he punched the neck the shoulders and the heart...you could run from Jack but Jack had some odd angles of power shots and he punched up pretty good...Tyson was good punching up but he had more trouble with Huggers than JD

 

Even you can't fail to notice the common theme that these guys all lack durability.

My point being that it takes a number of factors for a first round knockout at this level, which will usualy include the victim lacking durability or being intimidatd, even for a finisher as ferocious as Tyson.

Even if I accepted the premise that Tyson did everything better than Dempsey, an automatic assumption tht he would stop Willard in one round would still be completely unwaranted.

 

Yeah, but he was nearly stopped in the first round. A beating pike that from Tyson and Willard will be dead.

Put it this way, the first knockdown Dempsey scored? IMO, from Kid Dynamite, Willard doesn't rise.

That's how I can see a 1st round knockout pal. If Dempsey can hurt Willard that bad in the 1st round, Tyson can hurt him far worse.

Then again the superiority of Tyson in every department to Dempsey as a heavyweight is probably not an opinion you share to the level I do.

I would say Tyson would demolish Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries as well. Two or three rounds though.

 

I want to vote yes, but I think there's an extremely slim chance Willard may make it to the 2nd.

 

All of those guys are better than Willard.

And no I don't feel he's an absolute joke oaf of a fighter and yes I've watched more of him than just the Dempsey fight, know about him being past his best, know about him being a true distance fighter, and I actually think he had a decent jab.

A jab that Dempsey slipped brilliantly the one time it was truly thrown in the first round. So would Mike IMO.

I think what Tyson did gets way too easily seen as a fairly standard achievement. 'Well, he was only prime for a couple of years'. 'Oh, he fought coke heads and fat glass chinned *******s'

Pinklon Thomas, the shot version that Tyson eentially stopped, still takes a massive dump on Willard. Even taking into account era and ruleset Willard was not one of the best of his time. I think it took until Leon Spinks for a heavyweight champ' as bad as Willard.

He wasn't '****' by any means. But Tyson would smash him to pieces. Just look at the two men. One, an absolute machine, quick, two fisted power, incredible defence and head movement. Not a perfect fighter, but for what he did one of the most incredible specimens of all time.

Willard. Makes Dimitrienko look good.

 

Oh, and I'd give Willard time to get up to his feet before Mike can twat him again. If he does rise, he wouldn't last much longer IMO.

Again, this is all based on; if Dempsey can drop him, Tyson can drop him worse.

 

Yep, I do. And highly underrated in his prime.

Forgive me.

 

I thought you rated him as just a strong game farm-hand with minimal boxing ability.

 

Here is the major flaw in your argument.

On paper they are clearly not better, and with guys like Green, it is a bit of a stretch to suggest they were "worse on paper but might have won head to head".