Prime Morales (02) vs Prime Marquez (04)

You are basing that heavily on the Diaz fight where he was forced to work that hard by a young, strong volume puncher who is known for his tendecy to throw 800+ in fights.
Marquez does what it needed to win..his forte is to sit back to pick off his man in a workman like fashion..But when pushed he can trade and he can lift the work ethic.

He threw just about as many punches in the 10 rounds of Peden fight then he did in the 11 and 12 rounds of the Casa and Pac I & II fights respectively.

You would be also be better served watching some of his non-title fights. He was on like a 3 year knockout run when he fought Gainer.

No suprise he said that...He was robbed in the first fight but got a gift in the second. I would say it had a lot more to with Marquez ad******g to his style and not getting nearly stopped in the first round this time around, which was essentially the difference in the first fight.

Im not saying that at all. Of course over the course of his career his skill level has improved from when he made his debut, dont put words in my mouth. But I am saying he really hasnt improved that much from how he was in 2003-2004 at feather, especially technically. He really is the same guy with a bit of extra weight stacked on, many say he is actually looking on the slide.

 

Why?

He pretty much dominated the **** out of Jaca and Polo...When just about no one else had come close to dominating Victor up until that point.

John is a different kettle of fish...which he continues to prove. Harder style for Marquez to deal with and harder conditions to work under.

He just went through the motions with Salido, who was probably on the roids anyway.

 

JMM just started to bring his A game from the moment he got a cut and stopped jaca one round after...but jaca did indeed win two rounds cleary...a more aggressive marquez would win 9 clear rounds against john..he still demanding a huge payday in the pac rematch so he must make very good account of himself in the salido fight

 

Well he just about did anyway..I think I had him winning 8, which still gave him a 2 point buffer with the deductions.

You could say fighting abroad and his out of the ring management issues maybe manifested itself in a lacklustre performance. But as I said John was a different kettle of fish...He just wasnt there to counter as much as Marquez would like, his tight guard and often defensive approach that night saw Marquez work a lot more to the body and clean scoring was at a premium.

He won the fight but I think if they fought 5 times Chris John would always be a tricky match for him...whereas stylistically someone like Diaz wouldnt, he would just have to dig deep physically. I honestly think Medina would be almost comparable to Diaz in a lot of ways and when Marquez fought him at 126, he just dominated him in every way, indicating to me that the weight suited him more.

 

morales all the way. idol el terrible had both the defensive skill set and offensive skills to match jmm prime for prime.

remember prior to pac, em has never been stopped nor knocked down as far as i can remember.

em had very heavy hand and had dealt with boxers to brawlers. JMM would have his moments and probably win 4-5 rounds but EM aggression will win him the majority of the rounds and ultimately the fight.

 

to be honest, i think marquez has steadily gotten better since he left feather. he had some troubles later in his feather tenure with jandeng and jaca, who are both b fighters if you're generous. add in the 'loss' to chris john. when he got to superfeather and beyond, he seems unstoppable. morales was at his professional/physical prime at superbantam/feather, so i'd say at that weight he takes it unanimous.

 

Morales destroys Dinamita. It would be Pac/JMM I round 1 but with a KO.

 

I honestly dont feel he has looked overall as good at 135..whilst still looking brillant and finishing those fight very emphatically. I can see why people think he is better there...I just dont think its that noticeable and I dont think he is neccesarily more skilled as asero thinks, but each to their own.

130 though..I think this is a great weight for him. But it must be taken into account its only a 4 pound jump and he only fought guys who had moved up aswell. He never tackled one of those boiled down lightweights you often get at supefeather.

 

I think Marquez's true prime was 02-04.. at his physical best.

Morales's prime was 98-01.

..and at those peaks Marquez was heavier at the time.. but I still like Morales' chances.

 

Two boxing Gods. They would beat the **** out of each other to a draw.

 

the JMM of today would not lose more than 4 rounds against john p4p...and that is my opinion why i say that JMM is not in his prime in 2002...had JMM of 2002 faced pacquiao of 2008, i think jmm would be lucky to get 4 rounds...

 

yeah, he might have lost a defensive step or two, but he has bridged the gap nicely with more power and sturdiness. he put on a few more pounds and ko'd 2 dudes who have never been ko'd before.


and looked pretty damn good while doing it.

 

im with you that 130 is his best wait. up to know he can still make the 130 limit but the green is in the higher divisions..what im trying to say is that JMM of 2004 is just a shadow of 2008 version of JMM...his performance against salido, jaca and john is a testament to that...

thus in a prime vs prime debate, JMM is in a disadvantage if we compare the 2004 version of JMM against a prime morales

 

I think you are just using inappropriate terminology there asero.

Roy Jones is a shadow of his self...Marquez certainly hasnt improved so much that he is leaps and bounds above what he used to, he was an elite fighter then like he is now. As you can gather I tend to think he hasnt really changed at all, just his opposition has.

We will agree to disagree on whether he is better suited at 126-130 or at lightweight...But the 2004 Juan is not a "shadow" of the version he is today.

 

the prime of a fighter has no stages..it is what it is, his best ability and form...what im trying is the 2004 version is a different stage and can not be called his prime..

im now going to ask you, is the morales that fight pac (1st time) still in his prime?