(PRIME) Oleksandr Usyk vs. (PRIME) Joe Frazier

In one sense, I agree with you: to deter Frazier, you need to render the guy unconscious.

It would be kind of funny if this fight turns out to be a dud. Frazier's defense is best against straight punches. Usyk is better set up to stop left hooks, and is very defensively tight. Both guys are sufficiently durable against the power the other guy can bring.

Would be interesting to see whether Usyk can just clinch Frazier to death like Ali did in fight #2. Usyk certainly has the size to clamp down on Frazier like Ali did.

 

I had forgotten about Dubois but he was also dropped 3 times by Lerena who was never known for power at cruiserweight. Frazier had decent power and a great left hook at heavyweight in the 70s. Even with the knee excuse there is a trend of diminishing returns in regards to the durability and punching power of fighters around 200lb compared to others around 250lb. Can Usyk stun Frazier? Yes, and i believe Usyk would actually beat Frazier in a close fight, but i just disagree about Usyk hurting shws equating to him keeping Frazier off

Bonavena was a slugger and likely developed that style because he had decent power, loading up on most of his shots wildly, Frazier walked into a huge right hand. Usyk probably hits harder, but Frazier still went forward against Bonavena bobbing, weaving, and can step back before evading punches after Usyk breaks his clinch. He's great at surviving and fighting on the inside despite being hurt, and let's be honest Usyk was never a great finisher. Frazier just resets unless he's on the verge of getting KO'd and imo after rewatching Bonavena vs Frazier his eradic head movement, constant position changing and aggression would make him incrediblly awkward for Usyk to deal with even when Usyk tries to take away his jab with lead hand controls and built off of them with one twos or combinations, but I think Frazier could get him on the ropes and break Usyk down in spots.

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Frazier took the power of Mathis who is much larger than bonavena btw, that fight was much earlier in his career and he never showed a weak chin outside of the Bonavena and Foreman fight. Historically and by numerous accounts across heavyweight generations i believe Foreman hits harder than anyone Usyk has fought but there is no real way to prove it.

Im on an edible lol

 

Based on Dubois absorbing hard shots from Miller, Hrgović, and Joshua, all of whom hit much harder than Lerena, I think we can fairly describe the Lerena knockdowns as an off-night rather than evidence of a vulnerable chin.

Regarding Frazier's power: it's worth noting almost all of his knockouts came against smaller opponents. Even his KO of Buster Mathis came more from systematic breakdown and exhaustion rather than one-punch power. His power was sufficient in his era but wouldn't translate as impressively against modern heavyweight dimensions. By contrast, Usyk has demonstrated enough power to hurt significantly larger men.

Usyk has enough pop to trouble Frazier and disrupt his rhythm, while preventing him from settling into his preferred fighting pattern. Frazier's toughness is legendary, but the notion that he'd simply reset and wear Usyk down ignores how Usyk systematically denies inside fighters the space they need.

Yes, Bonavena was awkward, but he was also crude and lacked refinement. He loaded up on wide shots and still managed to drop Frazier. Usyk is far more precise, calculated, and efficient. He wouldn't stand in front of Frazier throwing predictable punches, and even if Frazier momentarily trapped him on the ropes, Usyk's superior footwork would allow him to circle away before Frazier could capitalize.

As for the Foreman comparison—we can never know definitively, but even if Foreman hit harder, the gap wouldn't necessarily be enormous compared to some of Usyk's opponents. Many sparring partners have described Gassiev as the hardest puncher they've ever faced, so these power comparisons across eras remain subjective at best.

 

LOL, almost half the people here think Frazier would win.
The power of media propaganda on full display.
It's hard to even know what to say.

Go watch Foreman v Frazier and realise Usyk is basically the same size as Foreman and better in every way, probably even power.

Usyk is so vastly superior to Frazier it is truly shocking anyone thinks he wouldn't beat Frazier. You just have to watch 30 seconds of footage to see the insane difference in skill alone, let alone all the other factors.

Usyk is literally superior in every single category. There is nothing Frazier has an advantage in.

Usyk would utterly destroy him and it would be the easiest fight he ever had.

Serious, get a grip on reality and stop watching old Murican documentaries about your heroes from the b/w TV era.

 

Dubois also got stopped by Joyce, Joyce is a shw who stopped Parker but couldn't stop Jennings a cruiserweight. Going down that rabbit hole will only lead to more examples of it. Frazier taking Mathis's power was the point.

This is too baseless.

Frazier has absorbed punches from bigger guys who are more precise and calculated than Bonavena, outside of Foreman who is regarded as an atg puncher this is a one off if you want to dismiss Dubois getting dropped 3 times by Lerena. If Frazier traps Usyk on the ropes momentarily Frazier will capitalize like Briedis but to the body. Usyk has great footwork and yet when usyk was on the ropes he just shelled up, or punched back

 

Usyk is superior to Foreman in terms of power? Lol.

Foreman was rated as the hardest puncher Holyfield had ever fought. Yes, harder than Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson. At the very least, Foreman hit as hard as Lewis and Tyson.

If Usyk has comparable power to Foreman, then he has comparable power to Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis. Which is of course absurd.

I love Usyk and i think he is a good underrated puncher. But in no universe is Usyk even remotely as hard a puncher as Foreman. Foreman is arguably the hardest hitting two handed heavyweight ever. Foreman also threw devastating uppercuts from both hands. How many swarming heavyweights has Usyk destroyed with uppercuts?

Usyk doesn't hit nearly as hard as Foreman. As a matter of fact, he likely doesn't hit as hard as Ali. Ali stopped durable fighters like Bonavena and Foreman who are at least as big as Usyk's cruiserweight opponents.

the idea that Usyk will walk through Frazier is comical. Why didn't he walk through Breidis? Which durable cruiserweight did he stop?

 

Yes yes
Usyk better than Foreman in the power department, come on boy

 

Ali stopped Foreman, Bonavena and Liston - 3 guys who had never been stopped before.

In 41 rounds vs Frazier, Ali threw the kitchen sink at Frazier and was only able to stop him once through a sustained 14 round beating.

Usyk is a great fighter but he has never stopped someone as durable as Bonavena or Foreman even at cruiserweight. Yet we are to believe that he is so powerful that he is going to bounce Frazier up and down the canvas like Foreman did.

Appearently modern boxers are so advanced that not only are their skills greater than old timers but also their bodies have evolved 10,000 years in the span of just 50 years. Hence modern boxers hit far harder than old timers do. Lol.

 

I'll take the guy that was bigger than Foreman but also a master boxer.

 

Not bigger than Foreman. Maybe 5-7 lbs heavier. Foreman used to boil himself down from 230 lbs or so because trainers back then encouraged guys to be on the lighter side due to the potential for 15 round fights.

Besides why the Foreman comparison? Usyk doesn't hold a candle to Foreman in terms of power. Usyk doesn't hit as hard as Ali so why not a more reasonable comparison to Ali?

 

So, bigger.

Wow, so, you are saying that Frazier lost to a less than ideal version of Foreman who is dehydrated and weak? I wonder what fully hydrated, rearing to go Usyk would do?

Usyk hits hard enough to have guys bigger than Foreman ever fought stumbling all over the ring

Ali used to ask his gal to make breakfast because he wasn't able to crack the eggs. Facts.

 

You are not interested in a serious conversation. Usyk is not even close to the puncher Foreman was.

And Usyk has not demonstrated the kind of power Ali did vs durable opponents. If Ali couldn't crack an egg, then Usyk couldn't either.

I don't care if Usyk has managed to hurt guys bigger. Bigger does not equal more durable. Neither Joshua nor Dubois are known for their chins. Come back to me when Usyk stops a fighter as durable as Bonavena or Foreman and then claim Ali couldn't crack an egg.

 

All kinds of subjective opinions on display here ^ Usyk would have dribbled Bonavena around the ring like a basket ball

 

Based on how he dribbled Gassiev, Chisora, Breidis, Glowacki etc. Sure. My opinions are of course subjective as all opinions are. But my opinions are also backed up by objective facts. Ali stopped multiple durable opponents. Usyk did not. At best, Usyk's power is comparable to Ali. At best.

In no universe is Usyk going to bounce Frazier around like Foreman.

 

A stumpy little heavyweight coming right at Usyk the whole night long sounds like Usyk's christmas christmas present.