(PRIME) Oleksandr Usyk vs. (PRIME) Joe Frazier

As usual you give good, reasoned and substantiated arguments for your view. Thank you.

I will say that while there are fights where Chisoras carrying too much excess mass on him, if you go watch the weigh in or fight again Im not sure its fair to say a lot of chisoras weight was fat against Usyk. While obviously not chiseled, he was in pretty decent shape for that fight and not carrying much extra flubber on him, imo. Wasnt like an arreola or ruiz situation.

Haye did show smaller heavies can crack big ones, but I do think Haye is faster and more powerful in his home run shots than Frazier is. Still though your point is noted.

I agree I think a swarming style is the way to beat Usyk and I think Frazier would give him plenty of fits. I just dont think hes big enough to pull off the win or get a stoppage. I expect Usyk would adjust around the mid rounds and come from behind to edge Frazier for a close decision.

But you make good points.

 

Almost nobody is comparing Chisora directly with Frazier.

The point, is that when someone tries to use Chisoras success against Usyk as a case for Frazier, while totally disregarding the fact that being pressured and smothered by a guy that outweighs you by 40lbs isnt the same as being pressed by someone you will weigh the same as or even possibly outweigh on fight night and are four inches taller than.

Its about the complete disregard for size when discussing Chisoras success against Usyk and then using that as an example of what Frazier would do.

Being bigger than Frazier doesnt 'prove' anything, but its simply reality that Chisora is going to present certain problems for someone that the smaller Frazier isnt, due to their size discrepancies.

Doesnt mean someone is saying hes on par with Frazier.

 

Again, for the umpteenth time. Chisora was Usyk's first real fight at HW as a pro, obviously his first world level opponent at HW, and Chisora is a horrible introduction for anyone's first real fight at test at HW because of his size, power, strength, relentless aggression which he applies with no respite from round 1-12 and his excellent chin.

It took both Belly, J-Park, and Whyte 2 attempts to get to grips with him and his relentless aggression and they're all huge lump natural HWs and big or huge punchers. And Whyte was on his way to losing the rematch to him prior to the ref unfairly deducting points from Chisora which forced him to become reckless and walk into a perfect left hook

Not to mention the ring for Usyk vs Chisora looked small and Chisora trained and prepared for at least 9 months to face Usyk with Haye bringing in former ''tricky southpaw'' opponents of Chisora's for sparring whose style he struggled with when he fought them in order to work on cutting off the ring and dealing with said tricky style. Haye said he really struggled at first but that after a few weeks he had it down pat. Obviously Haye was a CW himself and he knew exactly what Usyk was going to do and exactly what Chisora needed to do to counter it because he'd been there himself vs giants and huge lumps like Chisora. Having Haye in camp prepping him and in his corner was a huge + for Chisora.

This content is protected

And Chisora whipped himself into excellent shape thanks to Haye's involvement. The flab of old was replaced with muscle and Haye had him on a proper S&C programme. Hence why his power had increased

This content is protected

Fighting a 40lb heavier Chisora in a small ring for your first real fight at HW who hits extremely hard with that right hand of his, applies nonstop pressure from 1-12, and is impossible to keep off of you even if you're a power punching 250-260lb + giant is no easy feat

Haye fought the flabby Chisora of old who didn't take training as seriously back then and didn't hit as hard as the the version Usyk fought.

Sure he knocked him out but that's nothing to be ashamed of as Haye was an absolutely massive puncher and Chisora walked in recklessly to a huge shot (s). If that fight had gone a few more rounds I think Chisora would've stopped Haye because Haye was struggling to deal with that relentless pressure and starting to blow.

Chisora is insanely tough against men his own size and bigger for goodness sake. He's only touched the canvas like four times in his career despite facing everyone and their dog, taking a crazy amount of punishment, and fighting with the most aggressive possible style:

Twice vs Haye, the 1st time after walking into a huge shot(s), the 2nd time of which whilst already badly hurt.

Once vs Whyte after walking into a perfect left hook from a noted left hooker who has a huge left hook.

And after eating a vicious flush uppercut from J-Park. He took two more counts in that fight due to the ref deeming the ropes had kept him up but one was followed by a shove

Reacquaint yourselves with just how many flush bombs and perfect uppercuts he took in that fight because it was ridiculous and that was two fights after facing Usyk, the 1st one being a robbery loss to J-Park

This content is protected

Usyk hurt the 40lb heavier teak-tough Chisora with a combo and he could certainly do the same to a smaller or same size Frazier. Again, Chisora is crazy tough and durable

And he wouldn't even need to bulk up to fight at HW in that era so he would still have his much better speed, mongoose reflexes and reaction times, and agility.

 

But look at the style Usyk fought vs Briedis. He actually sacked his trainer after that fight. Usyk has numerous different styles and he would not fight Frazier with that style

Watch the James Ali Bashir trained Usyk. Bashir's philosophy was hit and don't get hit and when Usyk wants to employ that style and use the ring he does so beautifully

This content is protected

The Papachenko trained Usyk

He looks like a 200lb lightweight for goodness sake. So quick, light on his feet, agile, fluid, athletic and graceful. Would a 200lb Floyd be that agile, light on his feet, fluid, and graceful? I have my doubts because, as said, Usyk is already moving like a way lighter fighter at that weight

This content is protected