Prime Pac vs Fab four- how many of the four could Pac have beaten?

You're a funny guy, you know g

 

He's on video saying that he felt weakened by having his blood drawn the day of the first fight against Morales.

If you've ever donated blood, you know that they make you lay down/hang around and offer juice and cookies. Most people feel woozy after giving blood.

 

That’s his belief, he said that post fight morales fight wayyyy before floyd fight.

 

Come on man, if a past it WW SRL could befuddle Hagler I’m not sure what RJJ would do, probably make him quit out of frustration.

Hagler was very good but his best wins are over 2 blown up WW/LW and he lost to another blown up WW.

As for Pac Hagler, I can completely see Hagler just cornering and bulldozing Pac and trading with Pac, (punching when Pac punches) with Pac losing in the exchanges, so he he could destroy Pac. I just see it going the other way, Pac doing his lomachenko on Hagler, Angles and in and out. Size can get overrated.

We saw how a shot cotto WW (not a big one either) pretty much outbox Canelo. Canelo only won that because he had 30lbs on the man ffs.

 

kdyehs,

That's okay. But it's not really relevant, as Manny didn't fight the best guys of that era.

Why absolutely?

The T/S said prime for prime.

Size can be overcome depending on the circumstances. We all know that. There's tons of examples of smaller guys besting bigger guys. The problem here, is that it's not just size, it's size, power and lots of other attributes as well.

Seriously, those 15 voters must have been taking copious amounts of LSD.

The thought of him beating prime versions of Marvin and Tommy etc is laughable.

Of course it's relevant if some of them were past it. Very relevant.

 

The whole size thing is lost on some people. Pacquiao against Marquez/Morales/Barrera was able to overcome a slight size disadvantage as the smallest man of the 4 and managed to come out proving he was the best fighter between them. The key here is slight size disadvantage.

You come up against Leonard/Hagler/Hearns who are far bigger than Marquez/Morales/Barrera and I can't see a chance in hell Pacquiao wins.

But Pac beat top Welterweights and JuniorWelterweights. Yes, guys like Hatton and Cotto. Ok, but that is a far lower level than Leonard/Hearns/Hagler.

 

Roy would have been a huge threat to Marvin due to his size, speed and unorthadox style.

Again, although a faded Ray did befuddle Marvin, you have to note that Marvin was also faded, and that Ray had a much bigger reach than Manny.

A prime version of Marvin vs a prime version of Manny, would not have played out like the 87 'Superfight'

I also think that saying that Marvin's best wins were against blown up WW's and LHW's is disrespectful. Because those 2 guys proved themselves and won titles at heavier weights. And if you want to regard them as just blown up guys, then we could do the same and laugh at the notion that a blown up SFW could beat one of the greatest MW's of all time.

Regarding size, yes, it can be overcome. But against most of the Fab Four, it's not just size. It's the whole package: Height, reach, weight, skills, power, strength etc.

A guy like Marvin would have walked Manny down. He wouldn't have been facing a big former WW who was comparable in size to himself like he did when he fought Ray when he was faded. In this prime for prime discussion, he'd have been in his prime, facing a 5'5 guy with a tiny reach, who he'd have fought and not boxed had Manny have been aggressive.

 

Hagler was finished when he lost to Ray and actuallt outscored Leonard in that bout, Marvin had a better jab than anyone Roy faced and a longer reach than most guys Jones fought at middle, Jones never faced a Southpaw as good as Hagler, Hearns power was awesome at middle and he still had amazing hand speed in the mid 80`s, Roy`s chin was not better than Tommy`s or Ray`s at all.

 

That’s just moving the goal posts. The idea that Pac was flyweight or BW could beat mab/morales/jmm was ridiculous to many at the time. The idea that a FW like Pac could even be competitive with top 10 WWs at the time was considered even more ridiculous than Pac vs Hagler now! In fact it was so ridiculous you had people claiming if Pac were to do that he’d be #1 of all time, it just wasn’t a possibility.

Of course he does it and if he were to do it at MW (not saying he could), we’ll have the same discussions with him moving to LHW.

What was seen as a huge disadvantage at the time is now being played to have been a “slight disadvantage”.

I’m a big fan of Hagler, but he never did impress me. He was in a weak MW era and had to build his name beating blown up WW and LW.

Duran is more or less the same size as Pac and he took 5 rounds off Hagler. Duran is also an inside fighter meaning Hagler should have been able to outmuscle him inside.

As for Pac beating cotto not a big deal. Well same cotto who beat the lineal MW champ and nearly beat Canelo. Not bad.

Canelo btw could very well beat Hagler, 50/50. He’s faster and crispier. Chin just as tough.

 

I'd favour all of them against Pac however he gives both Leonard and Duran a lot of trouble. In his prime he was absolutely brilliant - the combination of speed, power, angles etc... he was superb.

Hearn with his dimensions and the leverage he gets on the right hand vs the Southpaw, stylistically is a nightmare for Pac.

Hagler at 160 is a step too far.

 

Duran started at LW and Hearns punched harder than Manny so could go toe to toe with Marvin, none of Manny`s opponents would have stod a chance V Hagler at all, this is a bridge too far, Marvin was something special.

 

Duran was more accurate puncher than Ray and set up his shots far better than Manny, he was also harder to counter, Manny would have a much better chance v Ray.

 

Hagler would have toyed with Cotto.

 

Canelo doesn`t throw enough leads to beat Marvin, in his last two bouts his output was nowhere near Hagler`s average, he just came forward baiting shots with his high guard and countered, he`d be outworked and outpointed by Marvin who would exploit his reach advantage via his great jab far better than Kov did, he would land as many jabs as GGG did.

 

Hearns couldn’t go toe to toe with Hagler, no one can, how do you go toe to toe with a rock? That would be a silly strategy for anyone.

I could see cotto outboxing Hagler on his bike, similar strategy to his fight with Canelo.

I need to rewatch the autofermo and Alan minter fights, I remember watching those 20 years ago but I wasn’t that impress with Marvin’s boxing ability, a bit bland - lacks speed. He’s a stylistic nightmare for some but he could be outboxed. Mugabi would have knocked cotto out into next week but Hagler was a rock, wrong style.