Prime Razor Ruddock vs Prime Joe Louis

Size somewhat matters its why weight divisions exist and boxing has evolved. No he wont dwarf walcott and charles but even with the slight size advantage he is faster, probably stronger and has quicker feet. Look at usyks highlights. He was superb on the backfoot against 250lb Chisora and was good at slipping and creating angles

Top Heavyweights now are better than they were then. Even giants like Willard and Fulton weren't very skilled. They didn't use their size at all. Not Fighting behind a good jab on the backpedel, had no head movement whatsoever, didnt lean on their far smaller opponents and didn't posess quick feet. A lot of big guys today are quick if you ask me. At least Joe Joyce has quick feet. Any top heavyweight today would have taken them out in seconds. And you have to keep in mind Joyce is fighting against 240lb+ not 190lb opponents.

Joseph Parker isn't some bodybuilder or obese and neither is Pulev Or Whyte or Joyce or Wilder or Ortiz or Hrgovic or Hunter or Jennings. Ruiz is Obese but has some of the fastest hands in the division and doesn't have a small gas tank like most people assume. Its not a weak era. Thats what they said about the 90s until the 90s ended. When this era is over people will be complaining that the new era isnt as good as this one. Its a cycle. Except the Klitschko era, that era was weak

 

I didn't say size doesn't matter. I said if Usyk is a 30 year old man who can easily cut to cruiserweight then he isn't going to have a major strength or size advantage over other cruiserweights. He didn't naturally grow into heavyweight, he simply ate more and did some lifting. Bottom line Usyk is not going to be overpowering or running Walcott or Charles or Schmeling because he ate a few plates of lasagna and curled some dumbells. A 30 year old man isn't going to suddenly become 5x stronger just because he gained 5-10 lbs.

Most guys nowadays have terrible head movement. Joshua is as stiff as a board and that's why Ruiz nailed him with so many shots, he's a lot like Frank Bruno. Whyte has no head movement and no defense which is why he got brutally KO'd in his last fight. Jennings is a lumbering oaf. The only fighters you mentioned who have decent head movement is Ortiz and Joyce. Quick feet? Again, literally nobody in the current HW top 10 has quick feet except Fury and Joyce. You are acting like everyone fighting in this current era is some explosive athletic specimen with top notch skill and this isn't the case.

The fact 40 year old fighters like Klitschko, Povetkin, Ortiz and Pulev gave 4 guys in the top 10 hell in Fury, Joshua, Wilder and Whyte, shows that this era definitely is weak. Only part of this can be blamed on improvements in sports science and medicine, there is no excuse for a #1 contender like Whyte in his physical prime to get brutally KO'd by a 40 year old. Joshua went life and death with Klitschko and needed to get off the floor to win. Wilder was nearly KO'd by a 40 year old Ortiz and was behind on the scorecards before landing his big punches late. The only time 40 year old guys have success at HW is when the era is weak. You didn't see this in the 70's or 90's (with the exception of Foreman who lost every major fight except Moorer). 40 year old guys in the top 10 and guys moving up from lower divisions like cruiserweight and light heavyweight are usually strong indicators of a weak era. Guys like Usyk, Toney, Roy Jones, Byrd, or Spinks were able to move up and have success for this very reason.

 

You're acting like humans cant get stronger.... you can life weights and increase your strength.

Joshua doesn't have good head movement but if you compare him to willard and the baer brothers he's a boxing genius. You see him with povetkin ? Boxing on his backfoot at spots with some decent head movement and you didn't see the pull counter he used on Pulev ? And him ducking Pulevs right hands and slipping his jabs to the side ? His defense has gotten better you know. But how does Whyte have no head movement and Zero defense. So you're telling me if someone gets knocked out they have NO defense ? Maybe its because Povetkin set him up. Whyte was boxing pretty well until the 5th round. Whyte has shown some decent boxing and defense against Parker and Chisora. He just has a glass chin so when you do land you could hurt him

You're missing the context of it all. It was Joshuas 19th fight. He's gotten a lot better since then And Fury beat Klitschko with ease. And you dont remember 40 year old Holmes holding his own against Holyfield and Mccall and beating Mercer ? The same mercer that almost beat Lennox Lewis and destroyed Tommy Morrison. That doesn't mean the 90s is a weak era. How about when Old man Tony Tubbs gave Bowe trouble? And Ortiz wasn't from the last era like Povetkin was, he just started boxing late. It could just be the fact that technology is getting better and access to better nutrition is increasing. Its the same reason why human life expectancy is increasing.

 

I didn't say humans can't increase their strength lifting weights. Im saying there probably isn't a huge difference between 205 Usyk and 215 Usyk. If There was, it certainly wasn't apparent against C level Chisora. Besides, if Walcott and Charles came to the modern era Usky would need to go back to cruiserweight to fight them anyway.

Yes Joshua has improved. I was simply addressing what you said about modern guys being these amazing skilled specimens when guys like Joshua and Fury are actually the exception not the norm. A lot of them are obese and slow.

If You think Whyte has good defense I don't know what to say man. That is a very strange opinion but I won't keep going back and forth on it.

Anyway as for the thread, Louis has Ruddock beat in hand speed, technique, combonation/body punching, timing, accuracy, stamina and finishing ability. All Ruddock has over Louis is 1 inch in height, a bit more weight, and slightly more raw power. He has very leaky defense and mediocre stamina and can't take a shot that well.

If someone thinks Ruddock "definitely" wins this fight they think raw power and size are everything because they are overlooking the multiple other advantages Louis has (and Ruddock is not even that much bigger honestly and the power is debatable).

 

C level Chisora is 245lb+ went 12 rounds woth Vitali and is known to be physically strong. And a lot of fighters in this era are fit too. Whyte doesn't have that great defense but just because povetkin beat him does not mean he is necessarily bad. Povetkin gave Joshua trouble and Klitschko had to use a lot of illegal tactics to beat him.

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he showed some decent ability to box on the backfoot in this fight and in the joseph parker fight. He is NO walcott or charles in terms of defense but he's far larger than walcott and is far more skilled than the superheavyweights that existed in their era.

What im trying to get at is SHWs now are far technically superior to the SHWs that existed in the 1910s, 20s, 30s, and 40s and size matters. And i dont favor Ruddock to beat Louis but he weighed almost 240 when he fought Tyson in their second fight and he hit like a truck. Might be pretty competitive if you ask me

 

Yes it would be competitive. I'm not saying Louis easily wins. But some people are acting like Ruddock is a huge favorite but his skills are nowhere near Louis and he's only 1 inch taller.

 

I hope you're even higher on Carnera for the same reasons.

 

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I´m not sure if you will ever get that: What would happen if you put a technically sound lboxer over 230lbs (low BF) into the shoes of Carnera and make that guy fight 187 pounders?
I guess I don´t need to adress that.

Carnera is a prove on film how far size alone could carry a fighter.

 

Exactly

 

Failing to mention fixed fights and losses to sub par heavyweights of the era along with winning by DQ a time or two when he was losing badly.

With all that size, Carnera was absolutely smashed to bits by a wild brawling 200 lbr with mediocre skills and little regard for the finer points of boxing.

 

"C level Chisora is 245lb+ went 12 rounds woth Vitali and is known to be physically strong."

C level Carnera is 270+lbs went 12 rounds with Baer and is known to be physically strong.

 

The thing is that Chisora isn't technically sound boxer.

 

Baer isnt that skilled compared to world level heavyweights today. Look at him on film. Cooney could probably whoop that ass. Carnera simply survived tha onslaught because of his size, he'd get mauled in 1 round in today's crop of top Heavyweights