Prime Riddick Bowe vs prime Rocky Marciano (12 rounds)

Marciano could punch..no question. But he was hitting men a lot smaller than the fighters that Holyfield fought. If you took men like Ted Lowry, Roland LaStarza, Don Cockell and Lee Savold and dropped them in the 90's and had them fight Evander or his opponents they would be slaughtered. The reverse wouldn't be true. Men like Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, Mercer, Foreman etc. would have a picnic if time machined back to the early to mid 50's during Marciano's reign. I see only Marciano and Walcott holding thier own against these men..though not necessarily winning. The 50's HW's were generally alot smaller in stature and body mass. Marciano would have a harder time ko'ing these bigger men...especially with one shot. I love Marciano...one of my all time favorites but I can't let that cloud my better judgement either. The 50's and 90's were 2 completely different era's and produced vastly different athletes. To think that Rocky would steamroll these much larger men is wishful thinking. He could win but it's not going to be easy. I can't see a prime Bowe out on his back from 1 shot from Rocky..Outworked and worn down sure but flat out ko'd? A prime Bowe? I'm not convinced.

 

I've thought from this perspective and understand it gets downplayed, but the only problem is historically smaller man have dominated the HW division. Once you get to a certain size you lose coordination, speed, etc. That's what makes Wlad, Lewis, Bowe so rare. Yes, there has been surge in bigger, more athletic HWs which should question how smaller HWs would fare. But the history for the large part is faster smaller more explosive type fighters beating bigger men. There's no basis for Pac (Besides going from 106 to 154 which is astonishing in it self) or Mosley and Oscar type guys fighting above 175 pounds. It's anomaly, which is why it was amazing to see SRR almost win the LHW title. Just like it's special for Armstrong owning 3 belts at a time, and Pac winning belts at 6 different weight classes. The smallest guys that have done something historically at HW where Fitzimmons, Greb, and Jones Jr. I remember those Jones Jr vs Holyfield talks back in the day too.

 

I agree with this. Very fair, I don't think anyone is saying that Rocky 1 punch KO's Bowe. Bowe is big, strong, and very durable. But Marciano out-working Bowe is not an impossibility.

 

Bowe was champ short time, and Holyfield was smaller and beat him once, had him hurt in 3rd bout, and he did not hit like Marciano.

Every 3rd day someone claims a guy less talented would beat Marciano, or someone else, based soley on size. There all time list must read:

Valuev
Jess Wllard
PrimoCanera
Abe Simon
Buddy Bear
Too Tall Jones

 

gentleman jim,

Name me a heavyweight from the 1990s with defensive skills like Roland Lastarza showcases on film?


You say names like Savold, Cockell, Lowry..but these men were not marciano's biggest kayo wins. Walcott, Charles, Moore, Louis, Lastarza, Layne, Matthews were Marciano's biggest knockout wins. How do these men do in the 1990s? I think very well.

 

This. There's no way Marciano could bully Bowe, push him off, or whatever. Bowe is the bigger, stronger and more skilled fighter. You gotta love Rocky for what he accomplished, but Bowe would be able to finish him within 4 rounds.

 

In this case its not just size. Its also style and skillset. Bowe was not an average fighter he was an excellent one.
Also could you see Marciano approaching a fight with Bowe like Holyfield needed to in the second bout to win?

 

You dont seem to be acknowledgeing this point in your arguements. Bowe was not Valueav, he was a well skilled and coordinated fighter who was solid in just about every facet of his game.
Your assessment on heavyweight history is not accurate either. We havent had a smaller explosive heavyweight dominante the heavyweight scene in 20 plus years. The last three dominant champions have been super heavyweights, who have used their size to offset some of their shortfalls.
When discussing Pac Holyfield, were not talking about any fighter moving up in weight. If we were discussing Pac Holyfieldin a comparable fight, it would be a 145 pound version of Pac vs a 195 pound version of Holyfield. Its exactly the same scenario of 185 pound Marciano vs 235 pound Riddick Bowe. Pac would get run over just like Marciano would.
Now when you throw in an average larger man, with a contrasting style matchup, then the fight could be debateable.

 

There are allot of unknown's here and it is similar to asking 'how would Hagler/Monzon do at 175lbs against 175lbers? How would Mayweather do at 160lbs?'. Marciano would be moving up to a new weight class where he is unproven effectively.

He would be undersized, and consequently have a weaker chin, his power wouldn't be quite as significant against big men with stronger necks/legs/jaws. Now his power may carry up to do enough damage, but would his chin? He has to take a bigger mans punch. What you also have to remember when going up in weight is the punches that aren't powerpunches can still hurt the small man, where as the small man's none power punches tend not to hurt so much. The smaller man also tends to get pushed backwards. You also have to remember the importance of height/reach advantages, which make it harder for Marciano to get his shots off against the bigger men

 

Its not even that kind of scenario. Its like a well skilled welterweight facing a well skilled cruiserweight with the same styles. Were talking 50 pounds of well conditioned atheletes, not slobs.

 

Well were talking 235-190 = 81% - so more WW-LHW but when you get to HW you have to factor in the muscle/skeleton ratio and you can get away with being a smaller man. Especially as even at 235 Bowe probably had a fairly high bodyfat, if Bowe had a similar bodyfat percentage to Rocky he'd likely be 220lbs. In comparison to Holyfield was only 87% of Bowe's bodyweight and he gave him a close fight the first time

For the record I'd strongly lean to Bowe

 

Even bulked up, Holyfield wasn't much of a power puncher. He was laying into fighters like Lewis, Bean, Rahman Mercer, Tyson, and Bowe with hard flush shots, at best just stunning them or scoring the odd flash knockdown from his accuracy. Moorer was exhausted and eating flush combinations for several rounds, and he still kept getting up. Evan Fields was a stronger grappler, and that helped him muscle Tyson around but he never got the one punch power he seemed to be striving for.

 

Holyfield looked like a puncher against Qawi down at Cruser, if Holyfield spent a career against 180-190lb fighters he'd likely be seen as a bigger puncher

 

In the shocking rematch maybe. But Qawi was a 5'5" former light heavyweight who had never been tested against big men. And Evander couldn't hold him off at all in the first fight despite landing a barrage of flush combinations throughout the fight. The crusier division Evander dominated was pretty barren, which is why he moved up.

The sub 200 lb guys Maricano knocked out....Charles, Layne, Moore, and Walcott were bigger framed men with their durability and power well tested against modern sized heavies. Sorry, but if say Archie Moore trade with a superheavyweight sized puncher like Valdez only to be knocked around the ring by Maricano..Im thinking Rocky packs a pretty exceptional punch. Same goes for the even smaller, Patterson and Satterfield.

 

Holyfield was only a 1year pro when he faced Qawi first though wasnt he? Holys sub 190lb opponents weren't of the quality of Marciano's by any means, but Qawi was a cruser champ who is a borderline great LHW and DeLeon, Tilman all cruser champs and certainly good scalps to KO

Baker and Valdez looked pretty clumsy from what I've seen of them so Moore beating them doesn't mean he's hanging with quality super heavies

Moore doesn't have HW durability by any means and Holyfield cruser or HW absolutely hammers him