Prime Roberto Duran vs ...

Good to see you posting mate!!!

Did you watch this one as well?

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Not yet, but l will.


And l'm glad you're posting again too l know you took a break a few months ago and we seem to agree most things.

I'm actually posting from a little fishing village in New Zealand called Tairua.

 

It is a nonsense

 

Armstrong was better.
Duran was a great inside fighter, I agree. But not better than Armstrong - and he fought too upright to beat Armstrong on the inside game.

Duran was a great fighter. A throwback to the earlier era in many ways.

 

Armstrong was better at all of that stuff.

 

Disagree pretty strongly here. There is an stylistic edge, and it does go to Duran. He's simply more accurate and harder to hit than Armstrong, and in firefights, that makes all the difference in the world. One guy will be hit less, and the other guy way more often. Now, if the fighter hit less didn't have much power, or a good chin, than the guy hit more still could win, but that isn't the case with Duran is it? Watch the videos of Armstrong, he comes wading in with little regard for getting hit or using movement to prevent being hit. He was content to fire away while foregoing some defense. That is a terrible way to fight Duran, who can crack, was an excellent counter puncher, great in the pocket, with better defense and a solid chin. Not sure how you can say there isn't a stylistic advantage there. Now maybe, Armstrong could simply outwork Duran and get a decision, but that doesn't change the advantages Duran has.

 

Have a look at that Armstrong video. The guy certainly had various skills and moves and was anything but a face first fighter when studied closely.

You don't do what Armstrong did without having a lot of game. The guy was beating fully fledged top shelf welterweights at 135 and under.

I'm not saying Duran couldn't beat him but writing off Armstrong against anyone ever at 135 would be harsh.

 

Agreed, he's a handfull for anyone. I was simply addressing who would have the stylistic edge. Didn't say he was only a face first fighter. I simply believe he sacrificed some defense for offense. Which can have great success as we've seen with him and others. What I am saying is, I think Duran has better defense in the pocket and out, which would make a big difference in this fight imo

 

I don't think anyone in that group would be favoured.

If I had to pick one, I would narrow the potentials to Armstrong, Whittaker and Pryor.

I would also toss a 2019 Loma into the mix, assuming he continues to improve and moves up a wt class.

 

Armstrong was defensively skilled. Constantly rolling under and inside the punches. The idea that he came wading in with little regard for being hit isn't accurate.
Of course, he DID get hit. Everyone gets hit. Aggressive fighters definitely will get hit. Armstrong got busted up a few times. He was only stopped twice in his 180 fights, once was in his professional debut. The vast majority of fights Armstrong didn't get a mark on him.

Armstrong was even better than Duran at most of the things Duran's being lauded for. That's not to say Duran wasn't a very great fighter, but it's just Armstrong was better, probably the best ever.

There's no "stylistic advantage" for Duran.
Armstrong was the ultimate fighter/swarmer. Only a lanky boxer-puncher with unreal power like a Hearns or a Robinson would hold an advantage stylistically. A guy of Duran's dimensions and style, no way.

 

Look, I like Henry Armstrong, I think he's one of the best ever, but you're overstating his defense quite a bit. Often times this "Rolling Under punches" was simply coincidence in that he was often ducking while coming in before any punch was thrown. Often times he wasn't seeing a punch and ducking, he was simply coming in ducking or ducking while in the pocket to unleash punches. This isn't to say he had zero defense at all, but he was no where near Duran in that department. Not even close. Look at the below video, and if needed, I can post full clips of fights with fight stamps showing him just barreling in low with no regard for defense and winging punches. His offense was his best defense. As you say, he had a great chin, so he knew he could take some, but eventually they won't be able to take his, and it generally worked, but I have a hard time seeing that work with Duran. Duran struggled with movement and speed more than an aggressive fighter. He had no issue with meeting fire with fire, but the difference here would be that Duran would get hit less.

A quick side note, you do agree Duran would be getting hit less in this fight right? I'm also thinking your convinced Duran couldn't hurt or stop Henry? It seems you must be, because Duran could crack at LW, and Henry is going to be hit and hit hard coming in for sure, so picking Henry must mean you believe Duran couldn't hurt him. Of that I'm not convinced at all. You also keep saying, Henry does most everything being than Duran, well, let's examine that shall we....

Jab - Duran
Hooks - Close, but Armstrong
Right Cross - Duran
Body Punching - Duran
Uppercuts - Close
Defense - Duran
Power - Duran
Stamina - Henry
Chin - Tie, or even so slight advantage to Henry
Ring IQ - Duran
Feinting - Duran
Inside fighting - Offense (Henry), Defense (Duran), Overall (Duran). The reason here is, Duran isn't that far behind Henry offensively in the pocket, but he's way ahead of him in defense in the pocket. A major variable, if not the most important variable in boxing is, hit and don't get hit. Duran was simply better at that.

With the above, please list which ones you disagree with. Now, the below video will illustrate exactly what I'm talking about with his defense among other things.

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Duran takes all of them

 

This is part of the overall defensive package and worked superbly for him. Not having the head stationary allowed him to avoid great amounts of punishment that face first or defensively average swarmers don't. It's boxing 101 for the aggressive fighter. It's part of what makes him great.

Armstrong's punch output is far greater than Duran's (and basically anyone else) and (just one) part of his defense is his incredible offense and output. It's hard to get pretty in there defensively with the type of insane pressure an Armstrong puts on you. His sheer output nullifies a lot of moves. You basically have to outfight him.

Again Duran can certainly be picked, absolutely. Armstrong has a lot of game tho and is grossly underrated by many these days.

 

I wouldn't want to bet on Duran/Armstrong. I cant make a pick there with any degree of certainty. Normally fighters or sluggers that come to Duran is an easy pick for me but in this case were talking about a force of Nature that has never been seen in the ring before or since. Duran was ferocious and he would need to be to deal with Hank.