Prime Rocky vs Prime Frazier

Do you recall who Marciano faced in his 12th pro fight? Neither do I.

 

Again, Joe Frazier knocked down Ali in round 15, only for Muhammad to rise back on his feet, losing Fight Of The Century, on March 8 1971, by unanimous decision. Frazier fought an out of his prime Muhammad Ali, who had 18 rounds total in his return to boxing, after his draft evasion conviction in 1967. It was Yank Durham who would not let Joe Frazier fight Ali, in 1967. This was after Ali battered Ernie Terrell over 15 rounds, on Feb 6 1967, Durham stated Joe Is Too Green For The Likes Of Clay, after watching the Terrell fight. Great FOTC, but Ali was not the same before that match, I wonder what might have happened?

 

When Ali fought Terrell, Frazier had banked a total of 12 total pro fights. Of course he was too green.

Ali had most of his greatest victories in the 1970's. Foreman, Norton, Frazier. Playing him as over the hill or past it is more than a bit disingenuous. Fool all the superfluous footwork he may have abandoned at that point, he made up for it in guile, inside control and pacing. He was a slightly different fighter but certainly not worse.

 

Not saying that he was not great, but he became more vulnerable to his 1970's opponents, and did not appear to show any vulnerability in his first title reign, 1964-1967. His Rope A Dope, and lack of his 1960's arsenal helped lead to his neurological issues, along with the Parkinson's. It was well documented that Ali's organs were starting to fail him, following the Thrilla In Manila, according to his physician, Dr. Ferdie Pacheco. Also it was Frazier, who told Yank Durham, in 1967, that he felt that he could beat Ali, or as Frazier referred to him as Clay, in 1967. To take credit, to take a win over a not prime rusty opponent, is like fighting someone with their hands tied behind their back. Mayweather did the same to Manny. It is better to fight someone on equal terms, I know in Ali's case, that was not practical, due to his Draft Evasion conviction, on June 20 1967. But at the time Ali failed to take the step forward, in 1967, Joe was ranked no. 1 contender.

 

Frazier was a great fighter and would be dominant in any era. But the kind of fight these two would have power and chins go a long way, Marciano had more punching power and with both hands.

Frazier was quicker but Marciano had a more diverse and strategic attack at high volume all night long. Don’t think you pressure a iron chined fighter with more power, with great stamina.

 

Ali also had more super high, elite opponents in the 70s (though the 60s contenders were as a whole no joke).

What Joe did FOTC cannot be underestimated imo, Ali went on to kick serious ass after that.

I firmly stick to my belief that FOTC chops EVERYONE down. I've never seen such a look of manic determination....Joe was going to win or die that night, and he fought supernaturally great imo.

Yeah, I think guys like Lewis, Louis, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Holy...all overall greater than Joe. But none of them beat him on that night. Lewis and Foreman would get chopped down (though it's more than conceivable Joe would get dropped...never stayed down, now did he?). Foreman couldn't keep him down in that first fight, and even though Joe was nowhere near the fighter he was that night, it didn't look to me as though George could keep him down. Look at Joe at the end of that fight, then look at Norton.

Just my belief, after watching FOTC more time that I can count. That was the greatest heavy ever in that fight imo. And sorry, folks, Ali was still the Greatest at that time, and he fought like it. It took that night's Greatest to beat him.

 

Frazier was thrown in deep water in the first Bonavena fight.
Marciano fought 4-10-0 Gilley Ferron in his 12 fight.
Ferron had been ko'd in his last fight by Archie McBride.
Nine months previously he had been stopped by 6-11-1 Charley Robinson.

 

It’s worth noting that Marciano had just started boxing at that point. Frazier had a lot more experience 12 fights into his career.

 

Its worth noting that in his 27th pro fight Marciano faced 22-20-5 Eldridge Eatman who had lost his last 3 and won 1 of his last 8
In his 33 rd fight he fought Harold Mitchell ,4-14-3 ,who hadn't won any of his last 11 fights.

 

So you’re saying Marciano was lucky to be fighting at the time that he did and that he would be totally ridiculed if he was fighting those kind of opponents today?

 

Can you point out where in my post I said / implied that?
I just stated two statistical facts.

 

Just reading between the lines.

 

He was in his mid 20s when he took up boxing. He was very green at that time, maybe 3 years boxing experience.

 

I have 3 biographies on him,I know where he was at.
ps Marciano turned pro at age 23.

 

Joe Frazier broke his thumb on his left hand in the 1964 Olympic Semis. He broke it knocking out a 6-3 225lb Russian. Joe told nobody and went into the finals to face the Polish fighter. Joe Frazier won the Gold without his mighty lefthook. He must of hand a decent right hand. A one handed fighter couldn't have achieved that.