Hi dago. IMO a ludicrous thread. Lyle was competitive against a brain dead Foreman. Pre-Ali George would have destroyed Lyle much like Frazier. As talented and powerful as Ron was can you give me ONE signature win in his career??? Shavers? OK, but he was out at the end of the second. NO signature wins! Back to thread, I, IMO, don't see a prime Lyle stopping the old man Foreman. Important thing to consider, George took many years off and wasn't 'punched out' when he came back. Repeat: Give me ONE signature Lyle victory.
He beat Bonavena, Joe Bugner, Jimmy Ellis, Earnie Shavers, and Scott Ledoux when he was almost 40. Typically the Ledoux win wouldn't be that impressive but I think the fact that he was almost 40, it should be noted. Lyle also took Foreman life and death and was up on the scorecards against Ali. Lyle was a qood quality heavyweight. That's not up for debate. I think you're overestimating how "brain dead" Foreman was. He went on to knock his next 5 opponents out in 5 rounds or less after Ali.
Why does he need a signature win? Where does it say you need a signature win? Thats just a made up terms by the armchair quarterbacks. What was Alex Stewarts signature win? He got robbed vs foreman. Morrison didnt have a signature win. Schulz didnt have one. Ive got lyle by clear decision if he can stay out of trouble like morrison. If they engage too much then foremans chances start rising, especially late in the fight.
I think Lyle vs Foreman when he was older would be a good fairly even fight that would go the distance.
Lyle should surely win on points. He has all the tools to outbox the older Foreman. I don't think older Foreman can draw him into a slug fest and bank on outlasting him.
Greetings again DagoWop! Respect your opinions but: Bonavena? Bugner? Ellis? All of them heading downhill after having seen better days. Shavers? I mentioned that one but Earnie had him OUT at the END of the second in Lyle's back yard. Beating Ledoux when he was 39? Scott nothing more than a tough journeyman. Many would agree with me but...I've always been of the opinion that you can't judge a fighter based on a good effort in a fight he LOST. Frazier-Bugner comes to mind; Joe's first fight in Bugner's back yard after his humiliating performance against Foreman! IMO Ron simply failed in all his efforts to secure a big win in his career! Tough out in ANY era but, simply, not enough to warrant serious consideration in any semi-ATG discussion. Lastly, a 74 or 75 bout with Foreman, before Ali, would have been a brutal beatdown. Quarry beat Ron 10-2, and hurt him, granted Ron a little green, but let's not attempt to compare Jerry's power to George's.
Bugner was not heading downhill. He was 27 years old and had plenty of career left. Bonavena and Ellis were always good opponents. Not atgs but definitely good opponents. Bonavena had won the previous 4 fights and went on to win the rest of his career after facing Lyle. The opposition wasn't top quality but it was what he was accustomed to his entire career. The location of the Shavers fight doesn't make a knockdown worse than it was. I don't understand where you were going with that. Yes you can judge a fighter in a good effort that they lost. We can judge that Klitschko wasn't completely over the hill against Anthony Joshua even though he lost. Frazier humiliating performance? No, he just fought a fighter who held stylistic advantages he couldn't overcome. Nothing shameful in his defeat. You're trying to judge Lyle off of a loss against a veteran when he himself only had 19 fights in his entire career. That's bad methodology.
I feel Lyle is being judged rather harshly here, but I still favor old George, who was calmer, more durable, and better defensively than young George.
Fighters become myths in people's minds. Foreman got decked twice by Lyle and almost knocked out, period. Young Lyle KOs old Foreman.
Lyle could hurt you but...he could be hurt and...outboxed. Dago, Bugner showed his lack of fortitude in Kwala Lampur. Ellis was gone by that time and Bonavena was a few years past Patterson's victory over him. You mentioned 5 victories in a row after Lyle? Haven't checked boxrec but who were those 5 victories? Don't want to demean a warrior like Ron but, IMO, he didn't have the oomph to take it to the next level against top flight contenders. Lastly he would have been a tough out in any era.
