Prime Roy Jones Jr Goes Through Sugar Ray Robinson's Resume Undefeated

Zod,

Hi, hope you've had a good weekend.

I'm not just focusing on 1999, I was just mentioning that we'd discussed it before.

As I see things, the window of opportunity for them to fight was very small.

Roy officially moved up to 168 in Nov 94, and beat Toney for the IBF belt. His 1st defence of the belt was against Byrd early in 95, who was ranked no.1.

Around the same time that Roy fought Byrd, Collins fought Chris Eubank. Then after that fight, he rematched Eubank in the summer of 95.

In the same month of the Eubank rematch, Roy fought Tony Thornton, and then didn't fight again until early 96.

After the Eubank rematch, Collins fought again later on that year, and then didn't fight again until the following year in March of 96. He then fought his first fight against Benn in the summer.

So the only time they could have fought would realistically have been early to mid 96. Roy then made the decision to go to 175, in Oct 96 after the Brannon fight.

So they maybe should have fought early 96.

That's right, they were no actual discussions with Benn, because Roy knew that King wanted future options, and he and the Levin's were never going to agree to it. I've just gone back and read your Benn, Jones and King thread which was great. There's a statement from Roy and Greg Fitz saying that Don wanted options. You said yourself that in your opinion, you don't think that Roy ducked him.

The only thing that I don't agree with, and I don't understand, is why Roy told that reporter years later that Benn's divorce was the reason it wasn't made. That was bizarre! But I believe Roy would have taken the fight under different circumstances.

1. Very true, but I'd assume that he wouldn't have gone out of his way to target a WBO belt holder, unless there were other factors involved like with Dariusz and Grant.

2. As you've mentioned before, Otis was specifically chosen in 98, because Roy wanted to fight a southpaw at that time. It was nothing to do with Roy wanting his belt, and Otis had moved up to 175 anyway.

3. Correct, but that was at 175 when he'd unified. He wanted all of the belts at that point, but the fight with Dariusz wasn't able to be made.

4. That's also true. But I guess the majority of them were easy to make. They wouldn't have been paid much, and the way Collins talks, he thought he was some kind of superstar back then, talking about unifying with Roy etc.

Ok, so he dealt with Don, but the fight never got made. But it shows he was willing to fight him, and he wasn't just content on facing lesser fighters at 168

Possibly, but he'd beaten the best guy at the weight in my opinion, in Toney, who'd beaten Littles. I do believe he would have fought Benn, and he had discussions with Liles who fought Nunn. But I agree that Collins was better than the guys who Roy fought at 168 after Toney.

Roy couldn't get the Benn fight or the Liles fight, and he decided to go up to 175 after the Brannon fight.

Hill unified against Maske, just after Roy had fought Mike McCallum. The likelihood is, that Hill signed to fight Maske around the same time as Roy decided to move up, or just prior.

Roy's first fight after winning the WBC belt was against Griffin in March 97. When we discussed the Collins topic before, you posted links where Roy was interviewed while in camp for Griffin. He said he definitely wanted Hill afterwards. But because of his own stupidity in the Griffin fight, a rematch had to take place.

Now just before the Griffin rematch, Hill went on to lose to Dariusz. After Roy had knocked out Griffin in the rematch, he then took a long break before fighting Hill in April of 98.

I don't believe he avoided Hill when he first moved to 175, I just think it was due to circumstances.

I've agreed with you many times that he should definitely have fought Nunn when he was mandatory. There was no excuse, even though we both agree that Nunn was a shell of what he'd been previously.

Possibly? But why was that? In my opinion it wasn't because he feared him. Like I say, in my opinion he'd have fought Benn under different circumstances, and we know the Liles fight nearly came off.

So again, he'd easily beaten Toney, and for whatever reasons, fights with Benn and Liles never came off. So unless he'd have got great money for fighting Collins, why would he have gone out of his way to make the fight? The WBO belt wasn't respected back then, and it wouldn't have been much good without having the WBC belt that Benn had lost to Malinga, who Roy had already beaten, and the IBF that Liles had.

You're right in saying that Collins was better than most of the guys who Roy fought, but I don't think Roy saw it as a big fight. I personally think that after there was no way for Roy to unify at 168, I think he knew he'd have to go to 175. Again, the window of opportunity to fight Collins was small. Roy had a few fights in 96, and then moved up. I just don't see how Roy ducked him. I think he was dismissed.

By the time Gerald had beaten Jackson, Roy knew he couldn't stay at 160. He was 24 and was too big for the weight. Immediately after Hopkins early in 93, he was fighting as high as 167. He had four fights after Hopkins, and only one of them was at 160. He then relinquished the belt and moved up for Toney in Nov 94. Gerald had a few more fights at 160, including a Jackson rematch, before moving up to 168 against Benn mid 95.

Roy was never going to be staying at 160 for a long time. I respect your opinion, but I think if Collins had held a major belt at 168, and a fight with the other belt holder was there to be made, then I think Roy would have fought him. Likewise if Collins had held two major belts and a fight with Roy would have been a unification fight, then I think he'd definitely have taken it.

I respect Collins, but I think he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't know why Roy would have feared fighting him. I think Roy would have decisioned him without too much trouble.


Thanks for your reply, just get back to me whenever you've got the time.

 

LaMotta would KO Jones late.. The man was a machine, and would throw volume to head and body round 1-15 if needed. Roy wouldnt handle it

 

How on earth would Jake have coped with Roy's unbelievable speed?

I don't think Jake would have landed anything significant.

Roy was just too fast.

 

Yes...SRR had no speed.. LMAO..

 

SRR KO Jones... LaMotta KO Jones.. Thats what Im saying

 

The same way he coped with Robinson's speed - staying low, getting under his punches, and keeping the jab on him.

A little like this:
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Maybe, maybe not. But the reason he "got stupid" is because he had been frustrated and couldn't keep his head together. Staying cool under pressure is a part of the sport.

 

What?

They fought 6 times in total, fighting at WW and MW, with Jake winning just the one. After Jake had defeated Ray, they fought again just 3 weeks later.

Of course Ray had speed. But Ray was fighting every month at one stage.

He was always going to pick up the odd loss.

Jake could never beat Ray on his best day.

Roy was a huge MW!

He was as fast as Ray, and much more powerful.

Why do you think Jake would have knocked out Roy?

Because he managed to beat Ray once?

Roy would have been far too fast and powerful.

I've got nothing but respect for Jake and all of those past fighters.

But styles make fights. I think Roy would have had an easy nights work.

 

I can't believe this thread is still around. I'm sure Tyson could have walked through Jones comp as well, but really what's the point of this discussion. SRR fought most of his career at welterweight (147) and Jones fought much of his career at lightheavy weight (175). So really, what is the point? Jones is a bigger fighter than Robinson, just like Tyson (or Lewis) is a bigger fighter than Jones.

 

Jake took a pounding in some of those fights, especially the final one.

Roy had much more power than Ray, he was tight at the weight in his early 20's.

Roy would have landed just as fluently as Ray in my opinion, and although Jake was really tough, I don't think he'd have survived Roy's shots.

I can't see how he'd have landed on Roy.

Ray was a class above most of his opposition, and I think he only struggled every now and again, because of how active he was.

Easy win for Roy IMHO.

 

He was ready to go. I think it was inevitable. He was frustrated, but he'd turned the tide, and there was another 3 rounds left.

We saw what happened in the rematch.

Roy's been pressured before.

 

Roy didnt have the damn heart to go 15 with LaMotta..Get real

 

It wouldn't have gone 15.


You've got a smallish MW, with a great chin, and who was relentless with huge heart.

Vs

A huge MW, who has blinding hand speed, fantastic footwork, who was a master boxer, and with knockout power in each hand.


Roy was bigger, faster, stronger, more skilfull, and had more power.


There would only have been one outcome.