Prime Roy Jones Jr Goes Through Sugar Ray Robinson's Resume Undefeated

assassin,

I've already told you that Roy missed all of the big name fighters at 160, because Big Roy held him back. After he beat Hop, he was fighting pretty much as a SMW straight after, apart from one fight. Gerald only had the one fight at SMW which was against Benn.

NO, they aren't my opinions.

They are FACTS!

List what I've put, where you think they're opinions. We'll go through them all if you wish?

Big Roy held Roy back at 160.

The Levin Brothers, Fred and Stan, offered Big Roy title opportunities, and Big Roy told them that he'd discuss them with Roy and then get back to them. He then went back to the Levin's and said that Roy wasn't interested. But the fact is, he'd never even mentioned them to Roy, and Roy didn't find out until years later. In 1992, Roy and his Dad had a huge bust up, and they went their separate ways. That's when Alton Merkerson came on board, and then Roy began getting recognition, and started moving up the rankings. The fight with Hop was Roy's first big fight at 24.

So go and do some research. Go and look at who Gerald, Jackson, Reggie Johnson, Toney, McCallum and Nunn were fighting at 160 in the early 90's, and then go and look who Roy was fighting. Then go and look at Roy's weights after he beat Hop in 1993.

Roy missed out on all those great fights at 160, and it had nothing to do with ducking anyone.

What excuses?

The Levin's didn't really want to deal with King, and King hated the Levin's because he knew they couldn't be manipulated. King always wanted options on fighters. Benn and Liles were King fighters, so they would have been hard fights to make. If you don't believe me, do some research.

These aren't my opinions, they're facts.

Eubank didn't want to know.

I agree that he should have fought Nunn at 175, but it wasn't a big deal that he didn't, because Nunn was a shell of what he'd been.

Maybe he should have fought Collins? But he decided to take a fresh challenge at 175, and he fought guys who were better than Collins.

The problem with guys like you, is that if he'd have fought Collins, Eubank and Benn instead of some of the other guys who he fought, you'd still be on here bashing him.

It would be "Why did Roy duck Toney and Hill etc?"

That's what would have happened, and everyone reading this knows it.

He couldn't fight everyone, and EVERY fighter has gaps on his record. But you won't allow for circumstances, such as rival promoters (boxing politics) etc.

Not that I have to explain myself to you, but I'm 33, and have watched boxing since I was 7 years old. So I can assure you I was watching boxing back then and I was a huge fan of Benn's. General Zod knows a hell of a lot about boxing, and so do a lot of other people who post on here. I've asked Zod lots of things on here, such as questions about Liles and Nunn, and the business side of certain fights, and about promoter's etc. But I don't need anyone to fill me in on any specific gaps, because I lived through it as a huge fan.

So come back, and we'll separate my opinions from actual facts that can be looked up.

Toney was 26, he was undefeated, and he was considered one of the best fighters in the world. Go and ask Zod to send you excerpts from a book titled Dark Trade. Toney's manager, a woman called Jackie Kallen, says that James was more than confident going into the fight with Roy, and he thought he could beat him. After the fight, he started making excuses, saying he'd had a cold etc. He ended up in a rage, and threatened to go round to Jackie's house and shoot her.

You obviously aren't also aware that Roy's promoter Murad Muhammad, tried to secure Roy other fights at heavy after Ruiz, and Roy's initial target at heavy was Evander Holyfield. Roy left his Ruiz weight on for a while in the hope of fighting again at around 200 pounds. That's why the camp for Tarver was so tough, because he still had his Ruiz physique mid 2003. The weight had to come off in a rush.

If you don't believe me, again do some research.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about!

The U.S. fans hardly knew anything of DM. They knew him by name, but they'd hardly seen him fight. Kerry Davis of HBO wanted to stage a Double Header to give the U.S. fans a glimpse of Dariusz, and to hype the fight. He wasn't going to be an undercard fighter. It made perfect business sense. DM and his Manager said no, which would have been a ridiculous thing to do had they really wanted the fight. Go and look at Dariuz's resume. It speaks volumes. They turned down the opportunity to fight Roy for big money, to fight the likes of Joey De Grandis.

Dariusz had no intention of leaving Germany, to fight the likes of Roy and Tarver. He was comfortable defending his WBO belt against B and C class opposition.

Roy fought and beat better fighters than Steve Collins you ******!

Ha! Joe never ducked a fight in his life?

He was hid away until he beat Lacy in 2006, 13 years after he'd turned pro.

You are just embarrassing yourself!

He went up to heavyweight at 34, after 50 fights, but he was mentally weak?

He went back down to 175, and lost around 10 pounds of muscle at nearly 35, to fight Tarver for his old belts, yet he was mentally weak? atsch

He's still fighting now at 44, trying to win a Cruiser belt, way past his best, but he's mentally weak?

What you've wrote is cringeworthy!

Seriously, you're posts are embarrassing to read!

This we can agree on. I've been a fan of Roy's for a long time, but the whole dog fighting and chicken fighting thing, simply disgusts me. I can't and won't condone that in anyway. Gerald McClellan also shared the same interests.

But I'm here to discuss what Roy did as a boxer, not what he does in his private life.

I eagerly await your response.

 

"I'm actually a FAN of Jones"

Ha! Quite possibly one of the funniest things I've ever read on here ha!

Every post on Roy, you mention that he was a fraud, a cheat, a ducker, and had a glass jaw.

Yes, we can all tell that you're a HUGE fan of his.

You don't give him credit for moving back to face Tarver, at nearly 35, after 50 fights, and coming back from around 200 pounds??

You are a complete JOKER!!

 

Sad thing for the RJJ lovers the reality shows a completely different story.

SRR = GOAT

RJJ=????

 

James Toney was an accomplished undefeated world champion when Jones beat him, not only thought of as the best SMW but one of the best fighters period. Toney was plenty confident, and talked all kinds of **** going into that fight. Roy outclassed him in a way that I think Toney never would have been able to handle.. Roy gets full credit for that win in my book. If you don't buy Roy's weight troubles for Tarver, why are you letting Toney's change the way you view that victory?

I am not saying anyone made Roy drop weight for Tarver, I am just saying it took balls, as that was a risky fight, and history has shown it is hard to move down from HW to LHW.. It was somewhat a historical accomplishment in itself, to not give him credit for that seems crazy to me..

I thought Roy showed the heart of a warrior, knowingly admitted before the fight that he was only a 7 out of 10 because of the weight. Roy won a close but clear fight, I had it even going into the 10th, or maybe Roy up by one, giving Roy the last two clearly.. I didn't find that fight hard to score at all, Roy out landed Tarver with power punches that were mostly hard body shots that had Tarver wincing in pain.. Even had him afraid to follow Jones to the on occasion even though that is where most of his success was. In no way was Tarver ripped off, no way. Kind of crazy, I think a lesser version of Tarver knocked out a better version of Roy in the next fight. Tarver was at his very best in the first Roy fight IMO.

I am not too hard on Roy either for picking his HW fights carefully, the man wasn't a true HW, especially not in an era with mammoths like the Klits and L. Lewis. But the fact that he could go up and beat a top 5 that had a good amount of weight on him was a great thing to see. At that point Roy had retirement on his mind anyway, and wanted the right fights.

 

The thing many of you are overlooking is Jones wouldn't have even made some of the fights SRR did because they would have been too much of a risk. Jones took the easier path every chance he could. He was a cherrypicker of the worst order. Look at the line of guys he fought at Light Heavyweight they were unemployed streetcar conductors and sanitation workers. Literally. :rofl

 

The SRR fights would have been lightweight/welterweight fights for the most parts, followed by middleweight fights, and a smw fight now and then.

You just can't compare a welter with a smw.

 

Mcclellan was planning on having more fights after Benn you fool. do you think he planned on being maimed? he wanted Jones after the Benn fight. are you that stupid that you can't understand simple things like that?

yeah, i know about all the problems Roy had back then. but why didn't big fights happen after that? why did he go through his whole career ducking the fights he should have been in? always an excuse.

look at who all those guys were fighting back then? and? look at Jones' weight? he was fighting between Middle and Super Middle? and? what is your point?

i don't care what the relationship was like between King and the Leven's, something could have been worked out. Promoters and managers have been difficult through out history. if you truly want something that bad, you sit down and come to some sort of agreement that both sides are happy about.

never said Jones ducked Eubank. Eubank was happy making money at home in front of big crowds and being famous. he didn't care all that much for legacy.

i never thought Jones had to choose. maybe he could have fought Benn, Collins, Eubank... AND Toney and Hill. there was plenty of time to do so. but it's just more excuses.

EVERY fighter has gaps in their careers? they have some, yeah. but when your whole career is one great big gap, then you have problems. i suppose it wasn't Floyd's fault that he didn't what to put his health on the line and needed to take long vacations when there were fights that people wanted to see big mouth in. just like Jones, Floyd ducks and dodges. have you got excuses for Floyd as well? or is it just Jones' cum you like dripping off your chin?

a woman named Jackie Kallen? yeah, i know who she is. i loved Jackie back then. and i have that book as well. what the **** is this? are you going to tell me about a man called Don King next?

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah... yeah, i know all that. he wanted Holyfield because he was done. i don't believe for a second he wanted Tyson. he was running on fumes after taking a mammoth beating off Lewis, but was still too dangerous for Jones. one punch is all it would have took. beating Tyson wouldn't have given him much credit anyway. he knew this, so wouldn't have risked it. that's an opinion by the way, not a fact. it would of made Jones a **** load of money, i know that much. Tyson would have been up for it, he needed the money.

are you saying that one DM fight in America would have brought the fans out in numbers? :rofl they were willing to watch Jones fight unheard of fighters, but needed to see ONE fight of the champ before they would have an interest? :rofl you're brilliant. you're a one off you are. dim doesn't even begin to cut it. the fight should have taken place in Germany, DM was the champ. end of story. and those light heavy's that DM beat, makes up the vast majority of Jones' resume. without that division, it's a bit thin on the ground for him. DM wanted that fight big. it was Jones' end that was messing about. play things their way, or not at all. priceless. it's not like DM was the champ or anything.

DM had no intention of fighting the likes of Tarver? :rofl you get better with every post. DM was a finished fighter in 2003. Tarver was a ****ing nobody at that point. what size clown shoes do you wear? :rofl

i never said that Jones didn't beat better fighters than Collins. mong. you fight the best you can get your hands on. Jones is a massive failure in this department.

do we really have to go into the Calzaghe argument again? we all know he never ducked a fight in his life. not once did any fighter call Joe out and he ducked them. the only fighter that called him out but never got the opportunity to fight him was Johnson. and we all know that was due to injury. many ducked Joe though. but i'm not willing to go through this **** again. it got boring a long time ago.

can't post any more. too many characters. but i'm done anyway.

 

i never said that Roy didn't have problems with weight in the first fight with Tarver. you could clearly see he was sluggish in that one. doesn't change the fact that Tarver should have got the win though.

once Roy had made the move to heavy, he should have stayed. then he wouldn't have had that trouble. nobody really cared for the Tarver fight. he was just a solid contender with a big mouth. nobody would have minded if he never got it on in the first place.

historical accomplishment? go easy there, MR. lets not get all silly on the subject.

you're in the minority for Jones winning the first fight with Tarver. most (myself included) had Tarver winning quite handsomely.

i'm not sure i agree with you that Tarver was a lesser fighter in the second. he was a lot more cautious this time... but lesser? just went about it a bit differently that's all.

i do agree that Jones was much better second time around though. he just made the mistake in being far too aggressive against a counter puncher who was waiting for the lead.

look, if Roy had kept his mouth shut and said right from the get go that it was Ruiz and that's it, i wouldn't have had a problem. it was his constant talking about all the fighters he wanted to fight up there that pissed me off. because anyone who knew what Roy was like, knew he had no intention of fighting them.

 

[url]http://www.fighthype.com/pages/content7276.html[/url]

PC: You were handling Roy Jones when he captured the heavyweight title. I understand at one point he was very serious about fighting Lewis, Holyfield or Tyson. How close where those fights to being a reality?

MM: When he won the heavyweight championship of the world, he was the king of the mountain. Once we won the heavyweight title, he was the man. It was the ultimate goal. He told me, "Let's go get Lennox Lewis." Lennox Lewis accepted $25 million to fight Roy Jones Jr., but he had one obstacle in front of him and that was HBO had to put him in there against Klitschko. Keep in mind, Klitschko was supposed to fight the kid from Canada [Kirk Johnson]. The kid from Canada pulled out, so HBO was stuck with egg on their face and they needed someone to fulfill that position. Well, Lennox Lewis said, "No man, I'm not going to fight him for that kind of money when next year, ya'll are going to have to pay me a great deal of money. I'll fight him next year." But when I put $25 million on the table, he said, "Let's fight Klitschko now!" Now HBO should have sent me a letter or a check or anything else because I saved them. And Lennox Lewis went in there and he won the fight, but he was embarrassed at how he won the fight. He didn't do as good as he wanted to do, so he retired. So that fight went out of the window.

Then we went and got Evander Holyfield. We offered Evander Holyfield $9 million. His lawyer at the time said that Don King owed him $2 million and they argued over why Don King should pay him $2 million. He [Don King] allowed me to offer him $9 million because he didn't have to. I said, "Well, Don is right. He don't have to let me give you $9 million when he's got an exclusive contract. You can't charge the man $2 million when he's allowing you to make $9 million, which you can not make without me." The lawyer thought Don should pay $2 million [on top of the $9 million offer], so I went up to $10 million. I said, "Look, here is $10 million. Let Don go for the million and this fight is on." He said, "Nah, Holyfield won't do that!" I said, "That don't make any sense." So Don goes out and calls Holyfield everything you can think of. He said, "I tell you what! I will go back and present this to Holyfield." So I saw him [Holyfield's lawyer] in the bathroom and I said, "First of all counselor, I appreciate that you are negotiating in good faith, because one thing about African Americans, for some reason, a Caucasian don't have their welfare in mind. HBO needs this fight. Who says he's not going to win? It's up to the will of God whether he wins this fight or not. He beats Roy Jones Jr. and not only does he make $10 million, but he makes another $25 million for a rematch. So that's a great deal of money, especially if you telling me that Holyfield needs the money. However, don't go back and tell your boxer [Holyfield] everything that Don King said because if you do that, I know us as a people. Holyfield's going to tell everybody to go to Hell." Well, because I later promoted Holyfield, he told me that's just what happened. The lawyer never told him that there was $10 million on the table; he just said that Don called him all kinds of names, so he [Holyfield] said, "The hell with Don King." He went on and fought the next fight and lost, so things happen when you leave your welfare in the hands of mercenaries. So we lost Holyfield.

Then one day, just before Thanksgiving, Roy said, "Let's go get Mike Tyson." I said, "You sure?" He said, "Yes. I want Mike! I can beat Mike Tyson. Let's go get Mike Tyson." So I called Mike and Mike met me in New Jersey at 1 o'clock in the morning. I flew all the way in from Florida to see Mike. I offered Mike $25 million to fight Roy Jones Jr. He accepted it. He called Roy on the phone and told Roy Jones Jr. that he's willing to fight, let's do this, but he asked Roy for one thing. He said, "If I lose the fight, you give me a rematch. If we do 3 fights man, I guarantee we'll never have to work again in this sport." He told him, "Roy, I'm gonna dog you. Don't take it personal. I'm not crazy. I'm going to dog you because it's going to sell a lot of tickets. I love you today and I will love you when it's over with. The fight is on." Some kind of way, Mike Tyson needed to get out of the deal that he was in. He said he wanted to file bankruptcy. I said, "Mike, if you're going to file bankruptcy, you should file Chapter 7." He said, "No because I'm going to lose my automobiles." He was worried about automobiles. I said, "Listen, you file Chapter 7, the kind of money you're getting ready to make, you can buy any kind of automobile you want out there." Someone convinced him to file Chapter 11, where all of his money had to go into an escrow account and be governed by Shelly Finkel; they were going to hold it right there. That's what ruined the fight.

 

okay, fair enough were Tyson is concerned, but what about Vitali and Byrd? were they too prime for him? it makes perfect sense to fight the guy that gave Lewis so much trouble. both would of made huge money. a win over Vitali (Jones would have been crushed) would have made him a bona fide ATG. that right there would have been the greatest win in history. nothing would have come close to that achievement. i mean, if he was willing to fight Lewis, then surly he would have fought the guy that Lewis just beat? it wouldn't have been as tough either.

 

assassin,

I see that you haven't be able to refute my facts? :good

I can understand that PERFECTLY. But in your previous post, you said that Roy was scared of him, and he ducked him, and Gerald if he'd have beaten Benn, was going to ask Roy if he'd got any excuses.

But I've proven to you that Roy was out of the mix at 160, before he beat Hopkins. Then immediately after Hopkins, he fought at 168. Gerald's 1st fight at 168 was against Benn in 1995. So yes, Gerald obviously planned to stay at 168 after Benn, and what happened was a terrible tragedy. But how can Roy have ducked him?

1. When Gerald was making waves at 160, Roy was fighting nobodies in Pensacola fairgrounds.

2. Roy went up to 168 in 93, and Gerald didn't get there until mid 95, so they were fighting in different weight classes.

You can't say that Roy ducked him.

It's not an excuse, I've accounted for every fight, but you're just not willing to take it on board are you?

Name me all the fighters he ducked?

He did fight big fights after that. Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin, and Reggie Johnson were all bigger fights and better fighters than the likes of Collins.

Show me this HUGE list of the guys that Roy ducked.

The point is, due to circumstances Roy missed fights with Toney (earlier) Johnson (earlier) Gerald, Jackson, Nunn etc at 160.

You're making out that Roy was some sort of serial ducker, but you won't allow for circumstances.

Well obviously things couldn't get worked out. King initially wanted a 3 fight option on Roy, and Roy was only willing to have a 1 fight deal. You make everything sound so simple. You accuse me of not watching boxing back in the day, and now you're making out as though King was easy to deal with, and they should have just sat down had a drink and talked about everything.

Good, We can cross him off of the list of guys who Roy supposedly ducked then.

Yes but there was lots of circumstances involved. You've just ruled out Eubank yourself. Benn was with King. Roy then moved up to 175, and dismissed Collins. Why are they excuses?

HOW is Roy's career one big GAP? Come on, give me a laugh!

I haven't got any excuses for Floyd. I respect him as a fighter, but not as a person.

Well if you loved Jackie back then, you can take what she said into consideration. You're saying that Roy picked Toney because he had weight problems. Toney always had weight problems, because he lived above a bakery and had no will power. He knew how good Roy was. He signed the contract. He was happy with everything. Why was he so out of shape before Roy? Why did Jackie say he thought he could beat Roy, and the excuses came after? Why didn't the biggest mouth in boxing say he wanted a rematch in the post fight interview?

Of course he wanted Tyson. He left his Ruiz weight on in the hope of fighting Mike. Go and read the links from Dyna. Murad spoke with Mike on the phone.

I'm saying that a double header was a good way to introduce Dariusz to the U.S. fans and it would have hyped the fight. It made perfect business sense.

The fight should have taken place in Germany?

Roy was the unified 175 champ and the best fighter in the world. The onus was on DM to go to Roy you fool!

Dariusz clearly didn't want the fight, as you can see from his resume.

If you want to do a 175 comparison with Roy and DM's resume, then bring it on.

Because Roy's 175 resume eclipses DM's and it's not even CLOSE!

Murad Muhammad says that DM was making between $1-1.5m per defence in Germany and he wanted $6m to fight Roy.

HBO apparently offered $5m and DM turned it down.

He turned down big money, to fight Joey De Grandis and Richard Hall TWICE, who Roy had already easily beaten.

Tarver and Harding fought in an eliminator in 2000 to fight for Roy's titles. Tarver was highly ranked back then. Dariusz was comfortable fighting b class guys in Germany for decent money.

Right. So he bypassed Collins to fight better fighters then.

Joe never put himself in a position to fight the best fighters available.

Do you know what the word irony means?

You bash Roy at every given opportunity, spouting nonsense about the gaps and who he ducked, while Joe defended his worthless WBO belt for TEN YEARS, that wasn't even respected back then or ranked in the Ring magazine.

You criticize Roy, yet Joe's first big fight on a global scale was in 2006. He didn't end up in the U.S. until 2008 in his last year as a pro.

It took him 14 years to get to America to push for the big fights.

He fought in one of the weakest divisions in boxing between 97-2005.

You should be on a stage somewhere. You're a comedian!

 

it's clear that the simple things are proving to be very difficult for you. keep your deluded way at looking at things if you wish, but this is a complete waste of time. believe what you want about Joe if it makes you happy. believe that it was Roy, and not DM that was the champ. believe that Roy ducked no one. knock yourself out.

but i will say this, even if it's too hard for you to grasp... MCCLELLAN WAS WILLING TO MOVE FROM MIDDLE TO SUPER MIDDLE TO GET THE FIGHT WITH ROY YOU COMPLETE IMBECILE!! FIGHTERS MOVE UP FOR FIGHTS ALL THE TIME!!

Thank you.

 

How many fighters can you name that has dropped from HW and won the LHW championship in their very next fight? I can name two, Jones included.

How am I the minority for Jones winning the first fight? Care to do a poll? I am sure most here agree that Jones did beat Tarver, as well as two of the judges, one had it a draw.. I have no idea how you could have Tarver winning handsomely, unless you're Tarver.

Roy Jones has always ran his mouth, and I have not agreed with all of it... That is just him though, you shouldn't let it **** you off too much.

 

lets leave the first bit, MR. if you want to believe that, then that's cool. i can see why you'd feel that way considering you're a big fan of Jones. but we'll agree to disagree. :good

at the time of the fight most had Tarver winning. boxing mags, media, fans etc etc...

you could do a poll and see what people have to say (i don't know how to do one ) but i know it would be a bit off, as i know what this site is like. but hey, lets give it a go.

yeah, i know i shouldn't let it change my opinion on him, but it's just the way i feel. it's not just Jones, id feel that way if any fighter did it. even my favorites.

if you claim to be the best all the time, you should prove it.