Prime Roy Jones Jr. vs. Artur Beterbiev.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Dec 23, 2021.

  1. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In a wrestling match or MMA fight or street-fight or anything that resembles a TRUE 1vs1 fight, Beterbiev literally and I mean literally murders him with his bare hands. He clinches and wrestles Roy Jones Jr to the ground like the weakling that he is, and shows him the difference between
    a true barbaric warrior and a flashy trickster.

    In a boxing match, if the ring in question is the size of a long-distance running track, Roy Jones Jr runs his way to a decision. In an actual phone-booth boxing match, Roy Jones gets splattered as he won't get the opportunity to show off all those trick moves that requires space.

    James Toney is a tougher match-up for Beterbiev, but even he got exposed in MMA for lacking true fighting skills.
     
  2. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Why are we putting them in a wrestling match. This is the boxing forum
     
  3. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That’s not what I said at all.

    Your logic is that Vinnie Paz got Roy on the ropes and threw shots, therefore a much more powerful Artur Beterbiev could have replicated that, but that he also would have knocked him out.

    Yes, Artur is much stronger and more formidable than Vinnie. It’s embarrassing to even compare them.

    Yes, Vinnie should never have been in the ring with Roy.

    The point is, although Vinnie wasn’t even a quarter of the fighter that Artur is, he had blazing hand speed as a former LW, yet he couldn’t even hit Roy with clean shots whilst Roy was on the ropes. Roy either dodged them completely or blocked them. And Vinnie went a whole round without scoring a single punch on CompuBox. Again, although it was a mismatch which shouldn’t have been made, it just highlights just how hard it would have been for a bigger, less mobile LHW to have caught up to Roy in order to have landed something of significance.

    It’s okay saying that Roy was vulnerable around the whiskers and that Artur is like the Terminator, but he’d have needed to have trapped Roy in order to have hurt him and stopped him.

    Would it have been possible? Sure.

    Would it have been likely? I’d have said no.

    James Toney wasn’t as powerful as Artur, but he had the same reach, great speed and elite level skills. Yet he couldn’t find Roy.

    Roy was extremely elusive.
     
  4. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yh, but many seem to be okay with non-boxing illegal moves like clinching, low-blows, and etc with the justifications being 'IT'S A FIGHT DOE SO ANYTHING GOES'. So we might as well compare them in a pure 1vs1 fight with less restrictive rules than what boxing offers. Like bare-knuckle boxing (also boxing) or ancient boxing (also boxing). Under such rules, I can't see any scenario where Roy Jones Jr even stands a chance, and perhaps not even James Toney.

    The best boxers are the ones who's style is most likely to translate and be effective outside of their relatively one-dimensional sport, like in MMA, Muay Thai and etc. Guys like Roy Jones Jr, Mayweather and etc are going to be butchered by a Thai fighters or an MMA fighter. Can't say the same about true real warriors like Beterbiev or Lomachenko.
     
  5. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Alrighty then just f*ck weight classes and pop Beterbiev in with real men like Derek Chisora, Tyson Fury, prime Bob Foster, prime Joe Frazier, Makmudov, and a former martial arts fighter in Dillian Whyte
    Lomachenko lmao
     
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great post.

    I’ve had some shocks over the years and have been made to look a fool a number of times.

    I was quite high on Lucian Bute back in the day.

    I liked his style and his skills.

    My friends asked me what I thought about the Carl Froch fight. I said that although Bute was still unproven at the highest level, that I fancied him to outbox Carl to quite a comfortable decision.

    Ha!

    You know how it went.

    Regarding Roy, Artur would have been incredibly dangerous to him. He looks to have freakish power and strength. He’s also extremely good technically.

    I have no issue with anyone picking him here. I just believe that Roy would have to have been made a significant favourite.

    I don’t go with that opinion because that’s what I would have wanted to have happened. I just go with what I think would have happened based upon what I know about each fighter.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  7. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    168 pound Merqui Sosa (catchweight of 171 for their fight) by Roy's own admission is the hardest puncher he has ever fought and Roy said the wind of one of his punches made him contemplate his own mortality and implied it would've knocked him spark out had it actually brushed that glass jaw of his.

    Beterbiev was knocking out heavyweights in the ams with head guards and big gloves on whilst weighing 185-187lbs and he hits much harder than Merqui Sosa for sure. Usyk who has fought savage punching elite SHWs praised his power and was dropped by a body shot from him which is the only time I've ever seen him hurt. Beterbiev wasn't and isn't just a monster in the ams and pros he's also known for being an absolute monster in the gym and very few sparring partners can live with him.

    Listen to what Lionell Thompson who shared a ring with a prime Kovalev and has sparred tons of the world's best fighters including the likes of Chad Dawson, Bute, Froch, Pascal, Troy Ross, David Lemieux has to say about him



    Artur doesn't just possess gorilla power and bear strength he also has an insane gas tank and exerts ridiculous pressure and can throw bombs from first bell to last without ever looking remotely tired. And get this through your thick heads. It's intelligent and extremely effective pressure which drains you physically and mentally. He's also, as said, is much more cerebral and a better boxer than many casuals will have you believe and he cuts off the ring and closes the distance very effectively and once he gets into his rhythm he's like a steam train coming down the tracks at full speed and he has a knack of making his shots find the target to head and body.

    If he'd turned pro in his early 20s or after his first Olympic cycle when he was robbed and hadn't been blighted with such bad luck in the pros and been so inactive he would've 100% achieved so much more and many of his detractors would be looking really stupid right now just like how Usyk made many of his look awfully stupid and clueless. He was the most feared amateur in the world back then for a reason.

    How many fighters can generate the kind of power Beterbiev does from such short distances? But he can also knock you senseless from the outside when he's closing the distance as he's coming in. He's deceptively better than it first appears. No one has outboxed him for more than a few rounds. Not even master boxer Usyk could. Fighters from the Soviet school do things differently than ones from the American school and I've heard many America fighters over the years say it's a different and difficult style for them and Roy's form against the Soviet school is average at best. Look at how Kovalev was able to outbox supposed master boxer Ward.

    Don't forget how many fans tried to downplay Kovalev's skills for a long time too just like they did GGG's and that's because they DKSAB and can't appreciate the subtle things. They're only impressed by athleticism and speed or they have agendas against these fighters. Kovalev outboxed Ward and GGG outboxed Clenelo. Don't ever forget that.



    Gvozdyk is a highly skilled boxer puncher with great legs, punch variety, and genuine power in both hands but once Artur got into his groove he started to brutalize him. Marcus Browne is a long and rangy slick southpaw with power and good movement but how long was he able to outbox Artur for? Two rounds and the Artur just started beating him up and made him take the knee.

    Go listen to what Iceman John Scully who is one of the most knowledgeable people in the game and has sparred Roy many times has to say about him.

    Here's some quotes from some of Beterbiev's opponents, sparring partners, and members of his team etc regarding his power

    Bob Ajisafe

    'He's very strong, very tough. Hits very hard with a lot of power. I think he's definitely going to be one to watch in the division. I don't think there's many who could last with him.''

    What is it about Beterbiev that makes him so good?

    ''It's his power. I mean sometimes you box with him or out box him but sooner or later he's going to catch you with one of those big shots and he's just got so much power for a light-heavyweight.''

    Blake Caparello

    Beterbiev has sparred recently with Bob Ajisafe and Blake Caparello, who believes Campillo (25-6-1, 12 KO) is in for a brief outing. "I really think it will be a short night for Campillo," Caparello said. "This guy has some incredible brute force. He could even chase and hunt down a strong Sergey Kovalev in the ring''

    “I do believe experiences like this will help me grow not only as a fighter but also my reputation,” said Caparello in closing. “Artur Beterbiev has a good reputation as being a beast and not many sparring partners can go with him''

    Oleksandr Usyk

    Q: Oleksandr, you won most everything as an amateur, including the gold at the 2012 Olympics. Who would you say gave you your hardest fight as an amateur?

    Oleksandr Usyk: “Well, all those fights, they all took place within the last couple of years or so, so it’s hard to say. Maybe, if I was pushed to say, it was Artur Beterbiev of Russia who gave me my roughest fight. He is very aggressive and he does hit very hard.”

    Gabriel Campillo on both Kovalev and Beterbiev

    “Kovalev is in his prime and we don’t know how long that will last but there is also Artur Beterbiev who is very strong, for sure he was the hardest puncher that I fought. I would favour Kovalev in that fight but anything can happen with a strong guy like Beterbiev.”

    Someone posted this on another forum

    ''I've heard scary stuff about this guy from behind gym doors, including a high HIGH praise and a glowing endorsement from Ovill Mckenzie who has been in his camps, said he will win world title within 10 fights without question''

    Jean Pascal

    Pascal is convinced that despite Beterbiev's short experience as a pro, he will be ready for Tavoris Cloud.

    Pascal: ''Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he knocks Cloud out.''

    Artur Beterbiev is renowned for his power, as Pascal confirms.

    Pascal: ''Artur is a brute, I remember the first time we sparred, he hit me so hard my neck hurt for a week. He's a very big puncher, he's very strong physically but he's also very smart.''

    Russ Anber

    I posed this question to Russ Anber, a trainer who helps Marc Ramsay with Beterbiev, and has worked in the corners of Sergio Martinez, Roy Jones Jr., and Jean Pascal. He drew on his 36 years in the boxing biz, and was straightforward with his appraisal of the Russian, a two-time Olympian.

    "Beterbiev is almost too good to be true," Anber told me of the fighter, who resides with his wife and kids in Montreal. "Technically, he's a complete student of the game, old school. He's university educated, understands biomechanics. His style is strength, imposition, but he's complete. He's as strong as a heavyweight, spars heavyweights here, like Oscar Rivas. He's the kind of guy, he comes into the gym, he doesn't turn the music on, he turns it off. He goes to the body, his infighting is good. And he's beaten Sergey Kovalev in the amateurs twice!"

    "This is the most complete boxer I've seen up close," Anber continued. "It's an effin privilege to be with him. His mental approach is that of a spartan. And I mean, he's the sort of guy you'd want your daughter to bring home. It's almost too good to be true."

    Yvon Michel:

    How impressed are you with the rapid progress of Artur Beterbiev?

    Look, he is really impressive in every aspect of what you dream of for a fighter. He has a personality; he is an intelligent person, he’s a family man. He has strength, power, speed, technique and dedication. The only thing that is missing is experience and we’re working on it. It’s a huge step (facing Cloud), we understand that, but we’ve seen him spar, I’ve had reports from his strength and conditioning coach, his trainer Marc Ramsey, who trains a lot of high performance fighter. Everything is telling me that we have an exceptional fighter on our hands

    Beterbiev's strength and condition coach (Andre Kulesza):

    One last word that Andre Kulesza. This guy was coach with the greatest athletes in the world. Including Lucian Bute, a beast of training.

    "Phfff, it does not compare. That's what I've seen stronger in my life. It is measured scientifically. The recovery time, strength, relaxation. Artur Beterbiev is in a class by itself. "

    Mark Ramsey

    “No matter if the fight is short or long, Artur will fight like hell in every round, promised Marc Ramsay, Beterbiev’s trainer. I know that a lot of boxing fans in Canada are worried to see Beterbiev, who has only five pro bouts, face one of the biggest name on the international scene. But not me. I am working every day in the gym with Artur. I know how much this fighter is great and mature. Andre Kulesha, our physical education’s specialist, told me he never worked with a fighter stronger and resistant like Artur. Cloud has no idea how much Berterbiev is good, strong physically and resistant. Trust me, Artur has the stamina to attack from the first to the 12 rounds if it's necessary.”


     
  8. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    All those clowns will get annihilated in a real fight by a top MMA heavyweight, except maybe Usyk (heavyweight Lomachenko).

    Beterbiev destroys Frazier anyway, and Bob Foster, but loses to the rest.

    Imagine worshipping boxers who are so one-dimensional that they'd be utterly useless and disgrace to the MARTIAL ART of boxing. Boxing is MARTIAL-ART first and foremost before a sport. And boxers who are limited to techniques that only work in the ring but will be useless outside the ring, are low quality boxers and an embarrassment like Roy Jones Jr LMFAO. Truly great boxers are like Lomachenko with footwork and angles that can be applied to any striking martial art.
     
  9. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    So despite the size difference and chin difference Beterbiev destroys Frazier in a street fight ? Bob Foster is one of the hardest LHW punchers in history yet his shots bounced of Frazier and Frazier is significantly more massive than Beterbiev but Beterbiev destroys Frazier in a street fight ? Beterbiev got rocked by Johnson. Beterbiev wont even move up to Cruiserweight

    Does Beterbiev know MMA for him to make the gap in size and durability irrelevant ? Am i missing something ?
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That’s great that you defend him.

    We all defend our favourite fighters. Nobody more so than me.

    I don’t think that Artur is overrated.

    I just couldn’t pick a 17 fight fighter to have beaten a prime version of Roy Jones.

    For me to do something like that, they’d have to be exceptional circumstances.

    A few examples:

    His 17 opponents would had to have been much greater.

    One of his opponents would had to have resembled Roy’s style, in order for us to see how he could have handled it.

    He would had to have possessed significant stylistic advantages over Roy, other than just power.

    So if he’d got a significant reach advantage, or if he was as skilled, as fast, or a southpaw etc, it would influence my decision a lot more.

    As it stands, although Artur is stronger, he isn’t faster, he isn’t a southpaw, he hasn’t got a bigger reach, and he doesn’t possess superior offensive skills. He’s also easy to hit. So although it still would have been a very dangerous fight for Roy, stylistically, Artur wouldn’t have been an extremely hard puzzle for Roy to have solved. Roy’s game plan would have been to have fought cautiously and elusively, but also offensive enough in order to have won the majority of the rounds.

    If it was a guy like Usyk, either at LHW (if it had been possible) or at CW, then I could see why people would strongly have favoured him. I would have understood that and respected it more. But again, as it stands, I personally couldn’t favour a 17 fight guy over Roy. Not when he’s the same size, and he’s a slower, orthodox fighter with a somewhat unproven professional record.

    Great debate.
     
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  11. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Beterbiev is Dagestani, and has a wrestling background where he was one of the best in Dagestan (which says a lot given how good Dagestanis are in wrestling in general and for Beterbiev to be one of the best among the bet wrestling state already is that much impressive) and has also trained with Khabib Nurmagomedov. Bob Foster and Frazier will be slammed to the ground harder than they can even dream of throwing any punch, and immediately have every single bone in their body shattered. Frazier ain't gonna get any opportunity to land any of his pathetic feeble punches, nor will Bob Foster. Before they know it, they'll be on the ground unconscious. Wrestling > boxing. That's why clinching (wrestling) exists in boxing but punching (boxing) doesn't exist in wrestling. Wrestling is a more natural combat system and if anything, boxing is merely an extension or a part of wrestling, rather than the other way around. And given that Frazier and Bob Foster haave 0 wrestling skills worth any salt, they have no chance against one of the finest wrestlers in his local state, a state better than any other at producing world-class wrestlers.

    But even if we discard wrestling and assume it's just punches, Frazier is one of the most predictable 'heavyweights' of all time and wouldn't even be much of a heavyweight today. His entire style revolved around ducking down, coming up and throwing left hooks, rinse and repeat. The guy was also partially blind and his style was that of a drunk blind fighter. Beterbiev won't have any issues reading something as predictable as Frazier LMFAO, even if it just came down to punches. But more importantly, Frazier's ducking and coming will be even worse for him and riskier in a street-fight or 1VS1 fight with fewer rules.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    On a H2H basis, he looks a very dangerous guy. But on a P4P basis, we’ll have to rate him fairly after he’s retired.

    I just hope that he can get some big fights in before he retires.
     
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  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It’s been a great Christmas for you.

    You’re still on it.
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Right.

    What would Loma do in the octagon etc?
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ha!

    Who have you spent Christmas with?