Prime Roy Jones Jr. vs. Artur Beterbiev.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Dec 23, 2021.

  1. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Use in and out footwork and throw combination punches at mid-range from variety of angles.

    Manny Pacquiao could do the same thing.

    Usyk could do the same thing.

    Boxers who specialize in combination punching from variety of angles + mid-range fighting + use pendulum steps with constant changes in rhythm will give any fighter fits in a 1VS1 combat, assuming striking is involved, whether that be MMA or Muay Thai or kickboxing.

    Outside boxing will get you destroyed by leg-kicks from a Muay Thai specialist. Inside boxing will get you destroyed by a wrestler or a Muay Thai specialist clinching you and unleashing knees and elbows.

    Boxer's biggest advantage over any other striking martial artist is at mid-range and pendulum steps. Guys like Lomachenko and Pacquiao and to some extent Usyk fit that bill. They'd at least be competitive in any form of 1vs1 combat that involves striking.
     
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  2. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    First paragraph is understandable. Although considering Beterbiev hasn’t been in wrestling for several years and boxes it's likely the throw hands before it gets to the ground. But if so I'd favor Beterbiev in a street fight, especially since Frazier would press

    The second paragraph is nonsense. Street fights start on the feet so if you were to have them just throw punches then Frazier beats Beterbiev's ass. Frazier has taken punches from guys that makes Beterbiev look pillowfisted because he is a LHW. Frazier bobbed and weaved his head to avoid punches, he didn't just duck and the funny thing is as limited as you make Frazier out to be, he still had better head movement than Beterbiev. Beterbiev is stationary as hell, marches forward predictably, more predictable that Frazier, has the weaker chin and has fought nobody on the level of Frazier in the pros. As you said if this were a fist fight Frazier beats his ass.

    Gerry Cooney was huge and powerful and would probably have beaten Spinks ass in a street fight but its irrelevant because Spinks whooped him in boxing. It's also irrelevant to the thread or any boxing thread because this is a boxing match hypothetical about Roy vs Beterbiev. You must be pressed that the majority favor Roy. You talk alot of trash on boxing despite having an account here raging. Take your goofy ass to the sherdog mma forum
     
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  3. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I am kinda messing about TBH. I haven't got it in me to be serious 100% of the time.

    But on a serious note, I do believe boxing is AT LEAST as much a martial art as it is a sport, much like wrestling is. And I'm just frustrated that many people (obviously not you) overlook the martial art aspect and overrate fighters who'll be useless outside the ring and underrate true great fighters (not just boxers).
     
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  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You’re hilarious.

    You’ve put forward Loma, Manny and Usyk based on their combination striking from mid range and from different angles.

    You have also put them forward based upon their footwork and their change of rhythm.

    Yet in your earlier post, you said that a guy like Roy Jones would be butchered in MMA.

    Great logic there.
     
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  5. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Roy Jones Jr wasn't a combination-puncher, he was a pot-shotter (much like Mayweather but faster and more explosive). Even when he threw multiple punches, there used to be a break / pause between each punch, compared to Lomachenko or Pacquiao who are fluid where their punches flow in succession.

    Also, Roy Jones Jr prefers to stay on the outside (a big no-no against a leg-kicking Muay Thai specialist). Meanwhile, Lomachenko, Pacquiao and Usyk are master mid-range fighters who press their opponents and don't move back staying on the outside.

    Roy Jones Jr did fight at mid-range, but not as often and not as well due to his combos not being fluid.

    Furthermore, the one major thing that separates Pacquiao, Lomachenko and Usyk from Roy Jones Jr is what yourself already stated, they are southpaws, meaning more awkward whilst Roy Jones Jr is not.

    But I'll grant you Roy Jones Jr could also be good in MMA, maybe not as good as the three boxers I've just mentioned, but relatively better than most of his contemporaries due to his natural gifts and speed.
     
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  6. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Beterbiev is still a great-wrestler right now, even in boxing (wrestling is and will always be a part of boxing). You can see it in clinches. Nobody can ever gain any positional superiority over Beterbiev. Clinching Beterbiev is to his opponent's detriment. Frazier and Bob Foster's only shot is to land the first punch and hope to get the KO and even then, there's no reason to believe the first punch will KO Beterbiev. And Beterbiev absolutely will take those two amateurs down as far as wrestling skill goes.

    And no, Frazier was the ultimate definition of ducking straight down and throwing blind left-hooks whilst barely even looking at his target. You can't get any worse than that. That's not bobbing and weaving. Bobbing and weaving are what Mike Tyson, Alexander Povetkin and Lomachenko do / used to do. Frazier was levels below those guys I've just mentioned in that department. If you used Tyson or Povetkin, I'd grant you they'd beat beterbiev, but not Frazier.

    I'm more pissed at the fact that people ignore the martial arts aspect of boxing, and the boxers who are also great martial artists (techniques that are most likely to work outside of a boxing ring) and overrate boxers who are one-dimensional due to their techniques only being effective inside a boxing-ring.
     
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  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Stop being silly.

    FWIW, they’re completely different sports, so I wouldn’t think that any of them would have much success.

    My only gripe was that you left Roy out when he was a master of all those things which you think would have brought success.

    Roy wasn’t just a pot shotter.

    He was a great combination puncher.

    Are you serious?

    Go and look at the Vinnie Paz knockout. He knocked him out with a 6 punch combination, whilst walking forwards, which included uppercuts of either hand. Sure, Vinnie shouldn’t have been in the ring with Roy. But that technique, precision, speed and power whilst walking forwards was simply off the charts. Go and break it down from a technical standpoint. I’ve never seen anything like it.

    Go and see the 1-2 he hit Reggie Johnson with.

    You’ve got to be trolling here for a joke. Roy could fire rapid fire combinations and lead shots, from short range, mid range and long rage. Look at the Griffin and Hill knockouts. Look at his in-fighting skills from in the corners and on the ropes, hitting people with 5-6 punches, which included double body shots etc.

    Imagine the power that Roy would produce with MMA gloves.

    He’d probably be more dangerous in MMA than what Loma would be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  8. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    This is ridiculous
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    Frazier ducked a lot but because he leaned foreward and because could and didn't have much repercussions for it, and thats because he was so good at making most fighters miss, if a punch was coming from an angle he could easily slip to the side or slip to the side for a straight and his left hooks were counters or leads, they weren't blindly thrown, although he put a lot of force into them and they looked wild. Talk alot of BS about a guy who became heavyweight champion in the 70s and beat Ali. He legit has better head movement than Beterbiev. Beterbiev is easy to hit compared to Frazier. And you claim Frazier was predictable. Far from it

    If Beterbiev and Frazier were in a striking fight. Frazier beats him up badly
     
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  9. Joe-fist

    Joe-fist Wise men fear nothing Full Member

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    you say you can't pick him because he have only 17 and had fought lesser opponents,it's not because he don't want to fight better opponent he want to fight the best! and Roy is American so he get back up by American money(ie more money than anyone on the planet) vs Beterbiev is promote by Quebec money(not even as much as Ontario) so my point is AB was poorly promote(money wise too).I have another question too: can Beterbiev beat all his(Roy) opponents?
     
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  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I respect what you’re saying.

    Under different circumstances, Artur might be 30-0.

    I just couldn’t favour him over Roy at the moment.

    Could Artur have beaten all of Roy’s opponents?

    That’s an interesting question.

    On paper, you would assume so. But there might have been a surprise in there, depending on how they’d have matched up stylistically.

    I’d have loved to have seen Artur fight John Ruiz. Ruiz couldn’t get near Roy due to Roy’s elusiveness. Of course, on a P4P basis, Artur is a much better fighter than Ruiz. But I think that it would been very interesting to have seen. For me personally anyway. I’d have liked to have seen just how strong Artur is, against a 230 pound Ruiz who liked to clinch a lot. It may have been a very tough and physical fight. One thing’s for certain, whatever the outcome would have been, it would have played out completely differently to Roy’s fight with him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  11. Joe-fist

    Joe-fist Wise men fear nothing Full Member

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    Roy was weighting 193lbs pound in the Ruiz fight the same as Beterbiev and the scorecards was 116-112 for Roy so Ruiz was still landing something on Roy...i don't know if you think AB would get crush by Ruiz or something because that implies that Roy have a better chin than Beterbiev? sure Roy was more elusive than AB but AB got a good chin...so he will just keep hitting Ruiz and put pressure as usual and win by KO(depend on the chin of Ruiz) or win by UD.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I never said that. Stop being so defensive.

    I’ve never even suggested that Roy had a better chin than Artur.

    If Serge reads this, he’ll fall off his chair laughing.

    No. Don’t be silly.

    I just said that it would be very interesting, as although Artur is clearly a better P4P fighter than Ruiz, Ruiz was a tough, 230 pound HW who liked to clinch and fight dirty. And considering that Artur doesn’t possess Roy’s great hand and foot speed, as well as his great reflexes, the fight would have played out very differently.

    Roy’s speed deterred Ruiz from getting close, and in the end it was an easy win for him. Go and watch the fight. It was so easy for him, it was boring.

    Roy cruised by him.

    As great as Artur is, he couldn’t have replicated that performance due to how they’d have matched up stylistically.

    It may well have been a very tough encounter.

    Ruiz would have had advantages in height and reach, and he would have had over 30 pounds in weight on him, with the strength of a natural HW.

    A KO win for Artur is a bold claim, considering that Ruiz was only ever stopped on just 2 occasions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Maybe we could start a thread if enough people seem interested.

    The thing with Ruiz, was that although he was horrible to watch due to his ugly style and tactics, he could cause problems for fighters who were more talented than what he was.

    I would imagine that all of today’s elite LHW’s would have had some struggles with him.

    A LHW fighting even an average HW can be a tough ask.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
  14. Joe-fist

    Joe-fist Wise men fear nothing Full Member

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    You said to me im being defensive yet you said this:Roy as better speed etc...i know that! you don't have to remember me that btw and you also said Ruiz like to clinch and tough? but you underate Beterbiev by saying:he's strong and that's it? he also have other abilitys you know! like Ruiz like to clinch...AB is one if not the best inside fighter of all times(and it's just not me who say this btw) so what gonna happen if(never gonna happen anyway) he do that you think?
     
  15. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    There is nothing that suggest Beterbiev would have beaten John Ruiz. Beating up LHWs is a whole different ball game from a guy that held his own against the likes of Golota, Byrd, McCline and Holyfield. Beterbiev would have nothing for Ruiz and would get handled low difficulty

    Beterbiev won't even be willing to move up to cruiserweight let alone heavyweight. So why do you favor him to beat Ruiz ? Why is Beterbiev so overrated on this forum ? Someone was just telling me that Beterbiev would beat Joe Frazier in a fist fight even if there wasn't any wrestling involved

    Whats next ? Beterbiev beats prime Razor Ruddock ? David Tua ? No wait, Sonny Liston ? George Foreman ? No wait, Beterbiev beats prime Riddick Bowe ?

    Beterbiev wouldn't even beat Floyd Patterson. Not even Qawi. Would he even beat prime Sergey Kovalev ?

    Beterbiev is elite and has devastating power, for a LHW. The wank is ridiculous